The Truth Behind the Gender Wage Gap: Alex Gailey Breaks Down the Data
We talk about the gender wage gap like it’s a single number.
But what if that number is actually a map—one that reveals why women earn less, where inequity hides, and how we can change it?
In this episode of Roar, host Danielle Davies sits down with Alex Gailey—finance data researcher, journalist, and one of the country’s clearest voices on the real factors shaping women’s financial lives.
From pay inequity to the motherhood penalty to the myth of “just negotiate harder,” Alex breaks down the systemic forces behind the numbers—and what they mean for women navigating work, money, and power today.
Together, Danielle and Alex talk about
💥 What the gender wage gap actually measures and what it doesn’t
💬 Why “equal pay for equal work” isn’t the whole story
📊 How race, age, caregiving, and career breaks widen the gap
💼 Why companies still rely on opaque salary structures
🧠 The emotional and psychological toll of being underpaid
📈 How data can fuel advocacy, policy change, and women’s financial agency
Alex translates complicated data into human realities—helping women understand what they’re up against and what leverage they actually have.
Her work is a reminder that numbers don’t just describe inequality…they expose it.
🔑 Key Takeaways
The wage gap isn’t a single number—it’s a collection of overlapping inequities.
Transparency is one of the strongest tools for closing the gap.
Women aren’t paid less because they “choose lower-paying jobs”—they’re funneled into them.
Career breaks, caregiving, and bias compound over time in ways data makes impossible to ignore.
Understanding the numbers is a form of power—it allows women to negotiate, advocate, and build differently.
Listen to ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture & Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. New conversations every Tuesday.
Full Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and lightly cleaned up. It may contain small errors.
Hi, I'm Danielle Davies and you're listening to Roar, a show that amplifies the voices of women breaking barriers, leading change, and making real impact. Keep listening for bold ideas and stories that inspire you to find your voice, and make some noise. Hi everybody, this is Danielle Davies, your host of Roar. Today's guest is Alex Gaye, a data reporter and analyst at Bankrate, whose recent story on the gender pay gap lays out a hard truth. At the current pace, most working women today will be retired before they ever see equal pay.
So, we'll let that sink in for a second. Through her reporting, Alex and her colleagues looked at how the gap shows up across women's entire financial lives, from negotiating raises and building wealth to climbing the corporate ladder and preparing for retirement. Their analysis also breaks down the compounding inequities faced by black and Hispanic women who are projected to wait the longest for pay equity. In this conversation, we're unpacking what those numbers actually mean, what they reveal about the systems we work in, and what it'll really take to close the gap. Alex, thanks so much for being here.
Thank you for having me, for having Banker be part of this conversation. I mean, this is a conversation we've been having for a long time, but it's really meaningful to get to add to the conversation. Well, and it's meaningful for us, too. Here at ROAR, we try to highlight women who are doing work on behalf of other women. So, it's not just, you know, maybe a fabulous woman who's fighting crime if she's fighting crime specifically geared towards women.
That's what we want to talk to you. Kind of trying to elevate the lives of the women that are listening. while also highlighting the awesome women who are making that happen. so, thank you for kind of being both of those. You wrote about the fact that most women, and I know I can actually barely get the words out, most women, working women, will not see equal pay in their lifetime.
When you first saw that laid out, what was your gut reaction as both a reporter and a woman? Well, it was extremely disheartening. the gender wage gap is something I've been covering for years now and it's data that I'm constantly looking at. And so I think because I'm looking at it all the time, sometimes I can forget about what it, you know, actually really means and how that affects women because I'm looking at numbers. But it's really important to connect the dots there.
I think the numbers really validate what a lot of women are feeling and experiencing in the workforce and have experienced for the last few generations. I mean this is something that women have been fighting for since the 1960s and we have the equal pay act but yet if you look at the data you know the projections that we've found essentially when me when women will earn what men earn as a you know overall as a as a group in the workforce that is nearly a century after the equal pay act was first enacted. So that just shows that this is a very pervasive issue. It's deeply entrenched in our economy and our society and there are just a lot of barriers to women advancing in the workforce. That said, I think it's also important to acknowledge that women have made undeniable gains in the last few decades when it comes to their participation in the workforce, when it comes to their education levels, when it comes to having more representation in higher paying roles in leadership.
So I think we acknowledge that we've made tremendous progress while also acknowledging that we still have a long way to go. Right? So it's not all doom and gloom. I mean we have made leaps and bounds and I think anybody can see that even just on a personal level seeing the people in the workplace, seeing the people in college campuses you know you hear stories and it's just not that long ago that certain women weren't allowed to rise in different fields. It's so there is heartening information but some of it of course is stops you in your tracks because one of the things that you pointed out is that not only have we do we have so far to go still even though it's taken almost a hundred years but recently that gap has actually widened.
Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah. So if you look at 2024 data which is the latest data we have available compared to 2022 data you do see that the gap actually worsened or got wider. So women were earning about 84 cents on the dollar compared to men and then and the latest data available that actually fell down to 81 cents. And so that again at surface level 3 cents might not sound like a lot but when you're thinking about the entire workforce I mean just that gap or that dip can translate to women losing out on hundreds of thousands of dollars over their lifetime in earnings.
But also think about the timeline or the what happens after you earn your money. You want to save it. You want to invest in it. We want to retire comfortably. You know, you want to do all these.
That's why we're working, right? We want our earnings and we want our money to work for us. And so, it's not just about earnings, it's about how it affects their finances when they are earning less than their male counterparts. And so, yeah, we certainly see, that dip, does it can have a significant impact on women's, financial security, especially over the long term. And I can talk a little bit more about maybe why we've seen that dip.
So when I talked to economists and experts who are studying the gender wage gap, they actually pointed out that this is likely a normalization happening of the data. In other words, we're likely just seeing us go back to what were more likely prepandemic levels. So if you recall during the co 19 pandemic recession, women were hit really hard. a lot of them were leaving the industries that were hit the hardest. they're over represented in those retail hospitality industries that were hit hardest.
And then also the caregiving side of it, a lot of women had to leave the workforce because of that. So the theory is that back in 2022 and 2023, that data was not counting the women that are in those lower wage fields as much and it was basically skewing the data. And so now that women have largely recovered in a lot of those lower wage industries since the pandemic, they're now back in the data. And so they've brought the average essentially down. But I think the point still remains is that if you look at the data over the last decade, the wage gap has been stuck.
I mean, it's really hovering around 79, 80, 81. It's not really moving. And so the fact that we've moved back closer to that 80 mark shows that the gender pay gap is really just stagnant. It's it's crazy. And you know, one of the things you mentioned too is like, you know, 80 some cents on the dollar.
It doesn't seem it's like pennies. It doesn't seem that much. I can see so many people justifying this like, well, it's so close. Like it's, you know, it's almost there. But what is it that what does that little amount look like?
And you touched on this already, but how's that show up in the way that we live or spend or plan for our futures are because we're always up against somebody who's doing who's being paid more. I mean, and it all affected even one of the articles that I read about that you guys wrote, and I'm gonna get to that, but it talks about how when you start off your first job, as soon as you take that first, if you don't negotiate that first rate, that sets the tone for forever. So, so these make these very small things. They seem like they're small, but they make a huge impact. Could you speak a little bit more to that?
Yeah, absolutely. the Yeah, like you I think you laid it out really well, which is that these little things do add up over time. And if you were to calculate the losses for women when they're at the 84 cent mark versus the 81 cent mark, you will see a significant difference. I mean, I'm talking hundreds of thousands of dollars if things continue in that direction. and so it is really important to recognize that just because it fell down a few cents it that is a that does have a significant impact on women's earnings.
then and then you know that follows women into their retirement. It follows women into their ability to invest. and I think we we've talked a lot about earnings, but we also have to talk about the barriers that women face with career advancement, with negotiating, with trying to climb that corporate ladder. And in fact, a lot of women have kind of gotten sick of the corporate ladder and have decided to get off of it and just create their own businesses. which is exciting to see in a lot of ways, but also again, double-edged sword.
exciting to see a lot of women starting their own businesses. We've seen that you know as of 2024 50% roughly of new businesses were formed by women, but it's also disheartening to see that there a lot of women are probably doing that because they don't feel supported in corporate America. Hey everyone, I've got some exciting news. I'm partnering with Louie. That's L UWI, a company that's reimagined women's health through the lens of the P word.
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And use code roar15. That's r a r15 for a special discount at checkout. It's very exciting that all these women are starting their own businesses and it makes me want to cheer and it's awesome. But starting your own business is really hard and people often times I mean sometimes it's a dream other times it's a necessity. You're forced to start your own business because you can't find something else that works for you or your family or your flexibility or you know your income expectations.
So like you said everything that you're talking about is kind of like a double-edged sword minus the fact that if we just had equal pay it would just be awesome. can you talk about we talk about job segregation and caregiving as major factors in one of the you know one of the aspects of this gender wage gap. Do you think this is all always about pay or is it about value and how women are valued in the workplace? It is certainly about well I would say it's about value first and then that translates to pay. And so you know when you think about what are the big forces behind unequal pay again we're looking at it from a 30,000 ft view.
We're looking at men and women in the workforce and why they are not earning roughly the same amount broadly speaking. A lot of that can be attributed to occupational and indust industrial segregation. So overall you do see in the data that women are over represented in lower paying fields and over represented in lower paying jobs while the opposite is true for men. They are over represented in those higher earning fields and jobs and particularly in managerial and leadership roles. And so that is a large reason why we see this wider pay gap.
and then in addition to that we also know that one of the other big reasons is because women still take on the lion share of caregiving responsibilities and they are penalized a lot of the times in their careers for starting families and for having children and this is known as the motherhood penalty. So you do see a pattern in the data where women are closest to parody when they first enter the workforce and are single and don't have children and as they age and get married and have children that pay gap widens whereas the opposite happens for men. There's actually this term coined the fatherhood bonus. So generally you do see men's earnings rise as they age as they have children and also there's a wide body of research that shows that perceptions of men as fathers is seen positively while women are more likely to experience isolation or hostility or stereotypes around motherhood and building their careers. It's interesting too because you know we're talking about value versus pay but it's also like the perception of value right like women as mothers and even in I mean don't even get me started but even if we bring it to your home and you're talking about you know that perception of what you've done in the home and how that plays out society in terms of getting the support that you need kind of equal parenthood that kind of thing.
but another thing you mentioned is women are over represented in these lower paying jobs. Is there a reason for that? So, I think a lot of people that don't believe in the wage gap or argue against it, they chalk it up to women making these choices like they're choosing to go into these lower paying fields. They're choosing to essentially you know, have families and they're willing to make those sacrifices. And I think that's oversimplifying it because I think we have to think about societal and cultural expectations of women when we talk about that.
And when I speak to economists who are studying even differences and how women pick college majors and even just like the decisions that women make even before entering the workforce when they think about their career and the jobs that they want to go to. A lot of it is imprinted in them from a young age and what they kind of see as women's jobs and what you know stereotypes essentially and what society kind of tells you is women's work and what is men's work. And I do think we've made a lot of progress especially with these younger generations to kind of show them that they can go into male-dominated fields and they can you know do things that you know historically women haven't done. but I still think that there is still a lot of those stereotypes and that sort of cultural pervasiveness when it comes to the value of women's work versus men's work today. And that certainly shapes and molds how women make decisions and even like the fact that a lot of women I think in the back of their mind they know that when they're building their careers and then that they're thinking about having families.
I often hear from women I've spoken to and something I'm even thinking about myself as I grow my career, you know, if I want to have a family one day is just like how I can't help but think about how that will impact my career and how am I going to juggle those two things because truthfully, our economy is not set up to reward and support caregiving. we just don't have the systems and the structures in place that women where women and I mean parents in general feel supported by our economy when they need to also you know manage a family essentially and so because women are taking on the disproportionate amount of caregiving responsibilities a lot of times they just feel like they have to choose and they don't feel like or they feel like they have to go into lower paying more flexible roles so that they can manage that. So there's a lot of different avenues women go down to try to try to manage these caregiving responsibilities. But I think it really speaks to the fact that generally we don't have the systems in place that really support women's advancement in the workforce if they do decide to have families. I want to come back to what those systems would look like if you know in a theoretical world, but you also mentioned you know some people who don't believe in the gender pay gap and I'm just recalling seeing like comments all over LinkedIn from a lot of people saying you know this is false this is false information where did you possibly get this information and almost I mean you could it's like I don't want to be stereotypical but almost exactly the only people saying this are men.
Yeah, I certainly have whenever I see pretty intense backlash on this topic on social media, I can't help but notice that there is a very specific group that it's coming from. It's it's men and truthfully it's it's white men. So I did notice there was I had a LinkedIn post go pretty viral recently just you know pointing out that the pay gap had widened and had included a chart of that data and yeah lots of comments in there that were saying oh this isn't real this doesn't exist you know oh did you account for jobs and occupations and if you even if you do which in that particular post I did not I was looking at it as a whole. But even when you do segregate or look at slice the data by job and by industry, you still see that in the majority of them, there is a pay gap between men and women. Cuz research shows that even when women go into those higher paying fields like science and technology or business, they're still more likely to filter into the lower paying roles in those higher paying fields.
And even when women do have similar experiences to men, they are still more likely to get paid less. So it's not just about being in com it's not just about how women work versus how men work and the expectations of work. It's you do see that's still pervasive even when women beat the odds and do everything that they're told they're supposed to do. You know, and another thing I keep thinking about the emote and I did think that was really funny, by the way, that it was almost all white men that were saying this. " But I keep thinking about the emotional toll of knowing your work is worthless on paper.
even just yesterday, I don't know if you saw this, and I didn't read it. I want to point that out. I did not read it. I only saw the title. Another actually a former podcast guest pointed it out.
" Did anything in your reporting capture how this affects confidence or ambition or even just how we support one another as women? Because that article was that opinion piece was a man with two conservative women. And I'm not even trying to bring politics in it. That's just what it was. That was the dialogue.
So, there are actually women who are who are pointing this out as well. or suggesting this. Yeah. And everyone's entitled to their opinion. I think what I've seen from talking to women who have personally experienced some element of the pay gap.
You know, it chips away at their confidence and their sense of belonging and it in a lot of ways makes them feel isolated. you know, I've seen women I've seen talented women just stay quiet or make themselves smaller to avoid backlash. And actually there is one story that really stayed with me in our reporting which was that there was this woman who's a medical sales rep and she knew that she was her territory commissions were split between 30 to 70 ratio with her male colleague doing the same exact work as her and he had been there a little longer. And so initially she was okay with it. But then when it came up to renegotiating those contracts, she, you know, she made a case to why she should have a 50/50 split.
She came up with ideas on how to grow the business. there were other colleagues of hers that were supporting her with this negotiation and this decision, and she did say that she was going to leave if she didn't receive it. So, she ultimately did win the negotiation, which that's great. And again, we go back to this double-edged double-edged sword theme, which is she won the negotiation, but then she immediately noticed that communications with her teammate like had diminished dramatically, and she just noticed that it was making her job a lot harder because he just wasn't giving her the communication and the energy that she had gotten before. So I think there is a you know relational cost a lot of times that women have to manage when they are just simply asking for what's fair in the workforce and you know that also brings me to that point of women being kind of conditioned at an early age to be nice and we don't want to ruffle any feathers and we don't want to offend anybody and we want to we you know of course we want to be paid for what we're worth but even in the beginning how she thought 3070 was fair you know okay I'll go in at 370.
He has more experience. You know, we're all kind of tiptoeing around it. But the fact is she went in to do the same job he was doing right from the get-go and was willing to take that maybe to get her foot in the door, maybe because she was kind of acquiescing to the situation. But I and the fact that she then had to contend with kind of animosity or that lack of communication just proves the point that if we don't stay quiet and if we don't stay nice and stay in our lane, we're going to we're going to pay for it. I'm using air quotes.
We're going to pay for it one way or the other. And I was just going to say, you know, people are always like I feel like men people my husband I'll be like just ask for more. Ask for more. And I'm like does that advice and even with the example that you gave like that she went in and she had to do this. Does this advice still hold in 2025?
It's basically asking us to fix a system we didn't break or you know, we just walked into this system and it's set up against us. So here we are kind of trying to happily do our jobs while also fixing it from the inside which is almost which is clearly impossible without systems in play to kind of elevate us. But what do you see from that perspective? Do you feel like that's even fair for women to have to do well when it comes to negotiating pay? Yes.
We often hear you know people kind of just say go just ask for more, right? And I think that again that might be oversimplifying it because I we have to acknowledge that there is some risk that comes with negotiating and the risks can be or feel even higher for women particularly because of you know being worried that you're being perceived you know perceptions or what perceptions people have of women when they're you know asking for what I would say is fair but it could come across as bossy or demanding or you know very self like promoting self-interest. So what I would say when it comes to negotiating pay is it's really critical for women to continue negotiating and asking for more you know more in terms of what is fair right there's there's a balance there but it's really important that women keep doing that and keep pushing towards that but what I've heard from experts that I've spoken to about salary negotiation specifically when for when it comes to women is that it's important to kind Think of it as a trust equation. And so you want to approach it as authenticity, credibility, relatability. Add those all things all those things together and then divide it by self-interest.
So women tend to find more success in negotiating when they frame it as how this pay bump or this job title will essentially benefit the greater whole of the company. So if you frame it in that way, you're more likely to have I guess stay away from some of those negative perceptions that are placed on women when they are negotiating or asking for more. And so that's kind of a way to think about it and the mindset you should have around it. But another thing is that I think we get so wrapped up on the number the salary, but it's important to think of the compensation package. So, what are all the other things that would benefit you and help you build long-term financial security?
That could be equity, it could be bonuses, it could be certain benefits, you know, higher retirement match by the company or even asking if there's any child care support or subsidies, asking, you know, if there's you know, more flexibility with your schedule potentially. So, I think it's also important to come to the table knowing that you can ask for things outside of just higher pay that could make your life easier and also in a lot of ways maybe save you money and help you build wealth long term. I like that. I was just going to say you know you me the gap's not just about money, right? So, it's all these opportunities, your time, your security, and so it's a great way to position your ask, I guess, like finding different ways that would supplement making your life just better as a whole.
Thank you. what talk I want to talk a little bit, change gears a little tiny bit to the positive side of this because, it can really stop like I keep saying the words stop me in my tracks, but that's exactly what happened. " Like, I'm 51 years old. The fact that this is the fact that my daughter is coming into something that's getting worse is just there's just so many things happening in the world. And that was just I was like, this is just the icing on the cake today.
but there are, like you said, we've made really big strides as well, and you can't kind of forget that because we need that motivation to keep going. this isn't a This isn't I don't even want to say it's a fight, but this isn't a mission that needs that basically we now need to be like, well, just forget it. We didn't get there, so just forget it. We obviously still have to get there and we still have goals of getting there. but let's talk about what that could look like.
You talked a little bit about in specifically in terms of caregiving, what systems that there aren't systems in play or in place to make it feasible for women to, you know, unilaterally be in the same place as men or their peers in the workplace? What are some of those systems and what would they look like? theoretically, what would you imagine could really help the and I realize like you're not running the country right now, but what would you see, you know, from your point of view, what would you see helping? Yeah. So, I mean, certainly employers and government, they have the biggest levers for change and there are a lot of potential solutions and I think we've started to see some of them, especially around salary transparency.
We've seen some legislation go into effect across certain states in the country that require employers to put in a salary range or a specific salary within a job posting which I think the more that we practice salary transparency that you know that knowledge is power particularly for women who again have historically been underpaid and who face a pay gap and just other barriers to their career advance. enhancements. So salary transparency is one potential solution. in addition to that, just employers, you know, allowing space for caregiving to not be seen as something that you know, takes away from people's performance. I think you know allowing flexibility and helping people better manage their work life balance that actually can increase productivity.
It can increase retention and in terms of how that looks like can look a lot of different ways. But I think employers that encourage again that flexibility or that you know in or even subsidize some of the child care costs or offer certain benefits that help subsidize those costs. again, it means that you have healthier workplaces both for men and women. and you're likely increasing that productivity. so I think that could be a way it looks in this hypothetical future.
And I think also creating policy within workplaces or programs within workplaces that reduce bias that because a lot of this is unconscious bias at the end of the day. And so I think it is important to have programs and workplaces that do address that and work through that. And we see in other countries that like the UK they are required to they require companies to essentially publish their data essentially like showing what the wage gaps are across different companies. And so I think making that data more public from employers could also just help address that. you know a lot of again a lot of this is happening behind closed doors.
It's happening very subtly. It's h happening very quietly and unclear pay decisions. It's happening in passed over opportunities. So the more we can create transparent data like you know beyond just government but also at employer at the employer level more likely get closer to speeding up that timeline hopefully. Quick pause to invite you into the ROAR community.
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Every share helps bring more women's stories into the spotlight. All right, let's get back to the episode. You know, you just had me thinking of something, and I and I don't normally bring it up, but the idea too of male allies. because I know and not even not even necessarily willingly or knowingly, but I know that years ago I ran for office and at the time child care couldn't be considered a campaign expense. So I had two young kids.
If I wanted to get childare that's on my own. and people wanted that to flip obviously because that's a huge if you're campaigning you're volunt if you when you're campaigning you're not being paid. I know some people like tend to think people running for office are being paid. They're not being paid. They are only fundraising to pay for their campaign, which I'm sure you know, but just for other people who might not.
And so if you're also like spending money on your child care, that's less time that you can go out. You get and you've got to go out, you've got to shake hands, you've got to meet people, you've got to be in the community. that finally started to change when a man who was the sole caregiver for his children ran for office and he pitched it and it basically it made it happen. So he was really pivotal in this change. M whether he meant to help the women who are who are benefiting from that I don't know but I think sometimes men need to speak up too to kind of make it a more fair and equitable world because it really does benefit all of us.
Yeah, absolutely. This should be everyone's issue, not just women's issue. we need men to be on board to speak up and to help support a lot of these endeavors. I think again women have done an incredible job at the individual level at speaking about this stuff about finding ways to navigate it as best as they can. You know, acknowledging that there are barriers and I think that there are a lot of men out there who do believe in the wage gap and who do want to support women when it comes to equal pay.
and so yeah, that's super critical. I think the solutions that are required to help close it do lead to healthier workplaces. So family flexibility, family flexibility which helps both men and women and again overall companies would see better retention, productivity, innovation. And I did see a 2021 report by the Institute for Women's Policy Research that found that if women earned what was comparable to men that we would add roughly over 500 billion to the economy. So this is something that also just could leave lead to more economic growth if we saw it happen faster.
It benefits everybody. Let me ask you, who's getting it right? Have you seen any workplaces or policies or movements that give you genuine hope? Well, I couldn't help but look at what other countries are doing and how they are fairing in comparison to us. There are lots of countries that are have a lot better policies around paid family leave and they have better laws and policies around salary transparency and they're requiring employers to publish their gender wage data.
And so a lot of that a lot of what will essentially get employers making changes would also require government intervention. I think, you know, we it's not just right now it's kind of like the luck of the draw in a lot of ways when you think about employers that do have more familyfriendly policies and it's up to you as the individual to go find those companies that you feel like will support you if you want to have a family or that even if you don't want to have a family just support women with their career advancement or that have more representation of women in leadership. So it's like up to you to go find that now in the US. But I think if we had more policies systems in place that were driven by the government then we would see that I think across the board more systematically than you know having to cherrypick places that are doing that better versus not doing that. It is it's funny.
It's like that whisper down the lane like oh they pay really good benefits or they're really you know I hear they treat their employees well. It's just you can't have that on a anyway we need systematic sweeping changes. but if every person and again this is theoretical sorry but if you're in your opinion because you are really in this if every woman or even person listening could do one thing tomorrow that moves the needle even slightly what advice would you give? Start investing. Fear of investing is really expensive.
And yes, I think we can't control to an extent that we're earning less than men. but we can control what we're doing with the money that we do get. And I and a really effective way to make sure your money is working for you is investing that money. And over the last few decades, women have again made tremendous progress in terms of their education levels. actually women are out are outnumbering men on college campuses and about a third of them are holding management positions.
and so again making progress but then once you have that money at least when I talk to financial planners they often see that the biggest barrier to women building wealth is fear of investing. and it makes sense. You know, women work really hard for their money and they are scared to lose it, right? But if you don't invest, you're actually losing out more in the long term. Cuz if you think about it from a long-term perspective, I'm not talking about day trading.
I'm talking about putting your money in the stock market little by little over time, whether it's through a 401k or an IRA or Roth IRA or even a brokerage account. If you're doing that over time and basically you know, essentially thinking about it from a long-term horizon, then you can see that historically the stock market has always risen. And it's pretty it's it's not guaranteed, but it's a pretty good shot that money that you're putting in at an early age and investing is going to be worth a lot more when you retire because of compound interest. So, I would say that if there's one thing you can do tomorrow, it is start investing. Even if it's a dollar, $5, $10, anything is better.
and really, if you can start early, that will work to your advantage. I was just going to say, is there a limit? Like, what if you're 70? Should you still start investing tomorrow? Start investing.
Yes. My daughter just won. It's funny you say this because my daughter just won the stock market game at her school. Like, she kept texting. She's like, you know, it was couple weeks and she's watching.
She's like, "I'm 13. I'm nine. " And she actually won. And I'm like, "You are starting now. " And at only 16, you've got a real chance of some significant growth there.
Absolutely. And one more thing I would like to tell women in addition to investing is don't wait for permission. And don't wait for permission to negotiate. Don't wait for permission to get the bigger jobs. Don't wait for permission to take financial action, including investing.
I a women tend to fall into a permission trap where they feel like they essentially need the green light or approval to do kind of these things essentially. and I really want to encourage women to just take charge, you know, whether it's financially, whether it's in your career. I mean, ideally, it's both, but that's really how women will be able to push back on this wage gap and try to build long-term wealth. The hard truth is that women have to be a lot more deliberate about their money just so that they can leave reach the same level of financial security as men often. So I think that's crucial.
Let me ask you a question that I wasn't planning on asking but it leads right into it. What about you know you said that a lot of women you notice it's fear. A lot of people have fear of investing and I would say a lot of it is fear because they don't know what they're doing. Is there a way is there some class format person you suggest them following person they can learn from? What about people who really aren't in fields?
You know, there are certain fields, there are blue collar careers where people are talking about what they've invested in all day over the water at the water cooler. Are there still water coolers? I haven't worked in a corporate environment in a really long time. but I imagine that there are places where these conversations are still happening. but if you're working at Target or you're working and you've got your own business and you're a copywriter or you're doing, you know, you're a, you know, I live in a tourist economy, so there are a lot of people with their own businesses who are cleaners and they do the turnovers for vacation houses or, you know, there are a lot of teachers.
They're not always in this world. It's not part of their daily vocabulary. Where do they learn about it? Yeah, I think that is so important that you bring up financial literacy and the lack of it. Unfortunately, this is not curriculum that is often taught in schools and it is generational in a lot of ways.
Like you're if you're talking about money, it's because your parents were willing to talk to you about it and they know something about it or maybe you've had some conversations with friends that are financially illiterate and kind of just got lucky there. that there's not like a there's not a system a broad system curriculum across the country that helps people understand their personal finances. there's some places that you know some states have done that which is great but again it's not happening systematically across the country and yeah I think a lot of that fear of investing does come from lack of financial education and not knowing really what they're doing and I would say that you know social media the internet Google has become a great place to at least get started learning about those financial basics and I think of course making sure that you're going to credible sources of that information or just at least finding pockets of community where you can just talk openly about that. women really respond positively to community and social support and there are a lot of online communities whether it's on Facebook or Instagram or Tik Tok or really like all corners of the internet there are online communities where women can join and at least get these conversations started because I think that's where it starts is with conversations and then when it comes to the more nitty-gritty advice side that's where you have to be a little bit careful with what you hear online, you know, personal financial advice. You're never going to get that online.
You have to make sure that you're just getting the information you need and doing your research so that you can then make what's the best decision for you. And then if you want that extra level of advice, that's where I'd recommend seeking out a financial planner or a nonprofit organization that does this type of work to kind of help you make those decisions in your financial life. but I would say financial knowledge, the access to financial knowledge is really great. but definitely be careful with making sure that you're not taking that as specific advice to take in your financial life. Thank you.
because I think that's one of I think that's definitely you know when you talk about financial literacy and I think that's why you know as a mom it's exciting when your kids come home and are excited about learning about financial literacy because it's not something that everybody knows about all the time and and I think as soon as you shut down as soon as you're like I don't you know it put me in a biology class and I'm instantly totally have no idea what's going on because I've stopped listening as soon cuz you said biology and some people are like that about finance. So if they're excited about it and who isn't excited about thinking about how your money can grow. I mean when it's actually growing and you're watching that think about your options and what that does for your future. It's it can be exciting. So okay this is great.
the last thing I wanted to ask you spend your days analyzing data about money and gender. How has it changed how you seen your own career or what you're worth if it has at all? Yeah, it certainly has played a big role in how I think about my career and my work and you know, of course, I mean, I think I said this earlier, but it really has shown me how per pervasive and deeply entrenched the wage gap is in our society. And you know I feel very lucky to be in a position where I can look at this data and figure out what the takeaways are from that and then try to apply that to my own financial life. I'm very grateful that I get to talk to financial planners all the time and get their advice for women when they're trying to navigate their financial lives.
And I have a lot of exposure to this information around personal finance, around the gender wage gap, around the financial systemic barriers that women face. And so I try to take that and try to apply that as best as I can in my life. Whether it's making sure that I am negotiating pay when appropriate. Making sure that I am, you know, thinking about how I maybe want to navigate having a family and building my career in the future. thinking about what fields are going to position me better for the future more competitively.
You know, again, knowing in the background we have AI and technology really ramping up. And just also thinking about how I can make my money work for me. I mean, when I first started reporting on personal finance 6 years ago, I barely knew what a 401k was. I didn't even know what was the right amount to contribute to it. I didn't know what a match was.
you know I didn't really have a strong sense of budgeting. I it's not unfortunately it's not something money wasn't something I grew up talking about within my family and I had to learn a lot on the fly and so yeah it's been a journey and I'm still learning every day and I think that's really important takeaway here is that it's a journey and you're not going to know everything about personal finance or you're not going to be financially literate in one day. It's something that you learn over time and you have to take baby steps there to build. and that's like a that principle can be applied to a lot of finan financial knowledge is just taking those baby steps and learning over time. Even the investing side you don't have to know everything about investing to get started.
it's really just important to get started and to just consistency is really what's key when it comes to saving, budgeting, investing, you know, all these things that go into a hopefully a secure financial future. Yeah, this was so helpful. I feel like everybody's going to really benefit from listening to this and I know I did. So, I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
Is there anything that I didn't ask you about that you wanted to touch on? I think we hit it all. So, thank you so much for having me. I mean, it's truly an honor to be here and to get to talk about this topic with you, to get to break down the data, but then also to talk about how it really affects everyday women and their careers and their finances. And so, thank you so much.
I really appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate it everybody. Thank you so much, Alex. We'll talk again soon.
Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of Roar with Alex Gaye. I hope our insights gave you a clearer picture of the gender wage gap and what's driving it. Next week, I'm talking with Pamela Redmond, novelist, creator of Nameberry, and the author of Younger, which was adapted into the hit TV show of the same name. We dive into her new onewoman show Reinvention and Claing Your Place at Any Stage.
If you haven't already, hit subscribe, follow, or leave a quick review. I really appreciate it, and we'll see you next week.
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