Jennifer Bendery on Truth, Power, and the Fight to Save Real Journalism
When truth itself is under attack, what keeps real journalism alive?
In this episode of ROAR, host Danielle Davies talks with Jennifer Bendery, veteran political reporter for HuffPost, about the state of journalism in a divided America and why facts still matter more than ever.
Jennifer pulls back the curtain on
📰 The rising hostility toward the press — and how reporters stay grounded in the chaos
💬 What happens when power goes unchecked
💪 The essential role of women journalists in protecting democracy
📉 The impact of disappearing data, misinformation, and media fatigue
This candid conversation explores how civic engagement, transparency, and relentless truth-telling can still cut through the noise—even in a post-truth era.
00:00 Introduction to Roar and Take Back Trust PSA
01:06 Meet Jennifer Bendery: Fearless Journalist
03:15 The Importance of Free Press
07:34 Challenges Faced by Journalists
12:01 Impact of Trump Administration on Journalism
25:41 Disappearing Data and Women's Issues
45:32 Lisa Murkowski: A Unique Republican Voice
46:16 The Political Landscape: House vs. Senate
49:04 The Fear Factor in Politics
51:50 The Role of Media and Public Perception
59:18 The Importance of Public Engagement
01:06:18 Journalism's Role in Democracy
01:17:50 Navigating Misinformation and Reliable Sources
01:23:53 Conclusion: Staying Informed and Engaged
The Not Invisible Act, we are happy to say, is back up at the Justice Dept. website and available here:
To get in touch with or follow Jennifer Bendery on her socials
X: @jbendery
Bluesky: @jbendery.bsky.social
Jennifer Bendery at The Huffington Post:
Listen to ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture & Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. New conversations every Tuesday.
Full Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and lightly cleaned up. It may contain small errors.
Hey, I'm Danielle Davies and you're listening to a show that amplifies the voices of women breaking barriers, leading change, and making real impact. Keep listening for bold ideas and stories that inspire you to find your voice and make some noise. But there's so much. Takeback Trust is a directto patient education and empowerment platform that helps people navigate and access reproductive health care in an increasingly restrictive landscape. Through clear, actionable resources, Takeback Trust equips individuals with the knowledge and tools they need to advocate for their rights and get the care they deserve, no matter the political climate.
This is Danielle Davies. Welcome back to ROAR, where we amplify the voices of those making an impact. Because advocacy isn't one-sizefits-all. Whether through activism, innovation, or in today's case, journalism, ROAR is here to showcase the diverse voices and actions that elevate women in everyday life. Our guest today is Jennifer Bendery, a veteran congressional reporter for the Huffington Post and a fearless journalist who spent years holding those in power accountable.
She covers everything from the halls of Congress to the Supreme Court, digging into the stories that shape our laws, our rights, and whether we realize it or not, our daily lives. The stories Jennifer covers impact us all. But with women's rights are under relentless attack, her work's more critical than ever. From reproductive healthc care to the treatment of women in politics, journalism plays a vital role in exposing the truth, challenging misinformation, and shaping public discourse. Today we're diving into the state of journalism, why it matters now more than ever, and how reporting the truth is in itself a form of resistance.
Let's get into it. Welcome, Jennifer. Hi, Danielle. Thanks for having me. I'm just going to say right at the front, we're friends.
And so if we start laughing maniacally, that's why. usually I try to reserve that for later if that old friends. Old friends. We are very old friends now. the older we get, the long road of friendship endure.
So, that's good. But this is serious because it actually is serious. And so, thank you for taking the time to talk to us because I know you're really busy and you're in DC and dealing with this stuff like on a daily basis. So, I'm just going to jump right in because I also know you have a story, but journalism isn't back like never before. And I also want to point out this will come out after the date this podcast.
So, today as we're talking, it's February 2025. And literally by the time this comes out, anything could happen. We don't know. There will be a Is this is this note you're sharing right now going to be in the podcast? Yeah.
But we're This is a very meta moment. We're talking about time in this podcast episode at a different time when this podcast is going to air. Yes. Got it. I spoke to an abortion doctor on the anniversary of the overturn of Roie Wade.
So, we had to mention that, too, because it's like things are changing so quickly. I can guarantee that whatever we talk about today, there will be a through line to April or May when this podcast comes out that is still true. But there's so much that's going to change between now and then. Yes. Yeah.
So, so today, could you explain why a free press is so important? Could you talk to us a little bit about what the real world consequences of this are for women, whether it's in politics, healthcare, or just our basic civil rights? Like, why do we need press? Well, we need a free press because the free press is rooted in telling the truth and it's rooted in facts. " and just like figure out what's going on in the room.
And it's it made me laugh because it's so simple, but you know, as a political journalist, we I have access to senators and members of Congress, and I can go in and out of federal buildings, the White House, and, you know, talk to the people in power. And there's nothing more important, especially right now, than speaking truth to power and asking hard questions and sharing what you're learning with millions of people who can read the things you're seeing. And if you're not in there asking powerful people hard questions, for example, like asking a Republican senator if they realize these mass firings at federal agencies are affecting people in their in their state. And, you know, maybe Mr. Republican senator from Louisiana, maybe you did vote for Robert F.
Kennedy Jr. to be the HHS secretary and maybe you don't really like that he's opposed to vaccines and raises skepticism about vaccines, but Senator, Mr. Senator, there are people in your state who are now scared because you just voted for this person to be in charge of the HHS, the Department of Health and Human Services. People are scared about vaccine skepticism now being supported by the person in charge of the largest health agency. Mr.
Senator, what do you have to say about that? You have a facility in your state that's one of the largest in the country for vaccine research and you know, so you find through lines that resonate with people in power where they have to answer questions that they don't really want to talk about because it's revealing that there's, you know, politics isn't everything. There's real people that are hurt and affected by everything happening in Washington. And if you don't push the people in Washington on that, then they're not going to talk about it. That's that's a big part of our job.
You get people to talk about hard things that hard realities that are about their own constituents being hurt by the very things that they're doing in Washington and they don't want to talk about that. They just want to get reelected. So that's that's a big part of our job. I would I would say you have to get bring in the voices of real people and the effects on real everyday people that the decisions they're making in Washington are having and that they don't really want to talk about. And why do you think it is?
I mean, I think it's pretty apparent obviously. It's pretty apparent to you and I, but also I hear from Republican Trump supporters who are like, "No, obviously there shouldn't be the press in there because they're lying. They're lying. They're lying. You know, we're the we're the real truth.
" But it's like a conspiracy theory. " Like, I you know, I only got to catch a little bit of it. I you know, I didn't have the glasses. " You know, like she didn't believe the eclipse was real. No, no, that's also a bit of a conspiracy theory.
So, you know, there are people are coming at it from a lot of different angles, but I do know some that are like, "No, the press is lying. The media lies. They're just after stories, and it's, you know, it's these it's these conspiracy theorists, almost like RFK Jr. himself, that are really the speakers of truth. " Well, it's not helpful that the president of the United States is the one who has pushed the phrase fake news, you know, fake media, you know, calling things lies that are very obviously not lies and the fact that he lies constantly.
So, the concept of truth has become up for debate, which is terrifying. the idea that science is real is also in question from some Trump supporters and from Trump himself. That is terrifying. That the questioning data, questioning things that are grounded in facts. It's gotten to the point where we are stripped down to core debates about facts and science and truth.
which is almost like epistemological like debates, you know, what is truth, what is life, what is what is death, like what is being, you know, nothing you've thought to be reporting on. Yeah. It's like very it becomes weirdly philosophical, but it's not philosophical because it is there are facts. you might not like certain facts, but there are facts and there is data and science that backs up facts and sometimes science gets it wrong and that's science self-corrects and then they and then people who work on science show more facts that create a new truth, you know. but in all taking all that into consideration as a political journalist, I mean, you have to pace yourself through this time when everything you say is being scrutinized and attacked as lies.
And I work for the Huffington Post, which, you know, plenty of people who are Trump supporters like to just make fun of generally. Oh, Huff Post, Puff Post, you know, that I didn't know Huff Post was still here. right? You know, the lefty blog, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, I've I get it.
People are just following Trump and the things that he says. people don't realize or care that, you know, who say this that Huff Post is a solid news site with, you know, seasoned journalists. We want a Pulitzer. Like, we have many awards for our news coverage. We have like we You are nullifying it, though.
Like, you're having to You're actually having to say this. " Like, I mean, it's I don't even I don't feel a need to say it, but I these are the things that I know. So, I you after a certain point, you just prepare to withstand constant a constant flood of personal and professional insults every single day. And if you're a woman or if you're queer or if you're a person of color or if you have a disability or if you have maybe you adhere to certain religions that are not Christian. I mean, you make you become a target for people at least on social media, which is where I am often and I'm reading I post all my stories on social media.
I share them. I want people to read them. So, of course, I get responses on social media like X that are some are just really nasty. So, you have to the importance of solid journalism in this moment could not be higher. I've been a journalist for 20 plus years and this is the most important moment for real solid fact-based hard-hitting journalism.
And it is also the moment where journalists are facing the most headwinds professionally. Our industry is being clobbered and cut left and right. There are racist, sexist, homophobic, Nazis out there just constantly pummeling journalists with threats and insults. There's death threats that people get regularly. There's personal attacks on your appearance.
I mean, you name it. Like, we at least in Washington DC when you're covering politics, this is the kind of life that you unfortunately have to prepare for. But it wasn't was it ever like this? Like you said, first of all, you've been doing this for 25 years and it's more important than ever. But was it ever this vitriolic towards journalists before?
This level of hate? It's gone up drastically when since Trump came onto the scene as a political figure. So going back to 2015, it's it's it's a combination of Trump fanning this stuff and he's the person at the top and what is the expression that the something about like the fish stinks from the head or something? What is the expression about a fish a dead fish stinks downhill? I don't know.
But something else roll downhill. I mean, but the point is the point is that when the president of the United States is actively and disgustingly and aggressively attacking the press and the and people personally within the press all the time and using his major platforms to do that, the people who support him feel emboldened to do it, too. And so it just bleeds throughout everything. And it was not great covering the Tea Party era of Republicans in Congress, but you also have to factor in social media has changed a lot and become so much bigger. There's more social media apps.
There's more ways for journalists to put our stories out there, which means there's more ways for people to personally directly engage with you. and in some ways, it's pretty nasty. So, at a certain point, you just have to figure out how to get your stories out there and cut off people who are being like that. I mean, you can mute people on X. X the website formerly known as Twitter has turned into a real hell hole.
Like, it's pretty bad. There's a lot of journalists who have just left. The problem with that and I understand why they have the problem with that is that I have a fair number of followers there who are good decent people who want to read the news and I want them to see news. I want them to see our news, my stories, my colleagues stories. I share stories from other news outlets that are really good.
I want them to see it. I want people to see the news that is real news and how bad things can be or even good news. You know, I want people to see news that's actually real and happening in Washington. So, I try to withstand some of the ugly stuff I get on there to keep pushing out real news that people I think deserve to know. Well, that sounds terrible.
It's pretty bad. I mean, people It's also really stupid, Danielle. Like people will screenshot a picture of me from the internet somewhere and share it like tweet it at me and be like oh like are you a little boy or like oh like look at you are you Rachel Matto or oh like should I look at this face should I believe you? I'm just like, are you like, I think you're trying to hurt my feelings or offend me or I'm not sure. Like, none of it is actually doing that, but it's very weird.
And I know you're trying to be mean, so I'm just going to go ahead and mute you. But the way people come at you is also strange. Lots of typos, lots of nasty messages. you know it's there is a lot of just sludge you know to get through but ultimately again I wake up in the morning and I I I think of other journalists there's I know so many journalists in DC we all do this you wake up it's a new day you have your thick skin and you go in the best you can to go find the real find out what's happening in Congress go talk to senators go talk to members of Congress put out a an email or a call out on social media for everyday people, anybody to just, you know, contact me because I'm working on X story. If you're someone who's affected by this, I would love to hear from you and see what kind of emails you can get from folks and talk to them on the phone and just connect everything.
You know, that's what Ed knows a guy who is very conspiracy theorist and he's like constantly trying to tell him stuff. both of Ed's going back with him and he's coming back with like but no this is the real news that's not really the real news and like have him I'm like just talk to five people I'm like just real people not don't look at anything just make a call because I think I feel like this is nowhere where I was going to go with this but like because we're so physically disconnected a lot of people like you know we're online so much it's so you lose that like how are you lose like the connection with humans and people and humanity to figure out what like the real problem like I've actually heard people say well this you know this isn't affecting me so it's okay and I'm like it's affecting someone so do we have we forgotten about that I know that's like you know we're at our cold hard screens it's hard to be warm and fuzzy all the time but like do we have we lost the ability to care about other people it's I do think that the that empathy and compassion are kind They're certainly like not a part of the Trump administration and everything that comes down from the Trump administration for sure. It's a very cold, callous, cruel, hateful time in our in this administration. Trump is terrible. Like people all know this about him.
He's got a lot of supporters, but there's certain things they see in him that they want to see. and he and the messages that he pushes out and the actions he takes in he's been taking already as president and second term are just cruel. I mean, I could list off several things he's doing right now that are just purely rooted in cruelty. There's no there's no reason to cut six or 7,000 people arbitrarily from the Internal Revenue Service, which they just did yesterday, nationwide. These are not people in DC like DC so-called DC bureaucrats.
These are people in Texas. These are people in New Jersey. These are people everywhere because they just want to show that they're making the government smaller in some way. But it's they're just firing people and then they're having to rehire them back because they realize they need them. It's just the cruelty is the point of what this administration's doing.
And it's it's important for people to see that and to remember that these mass these large numbers of people being fired as some evidence of Trump, you know, delivering on a promise to shrink the size of the government. Those numbers are not just numbers. Each number is an actual person who lives somewhere around the country, not in DC, somewhere around the country, who has a family, who has bills to pay, who has children, who has a member of their family who's elderly and they're trying to take care of. There's a lot of veterans who are losing their jobs right now because of these arbitrary cuts. veterans.
Every single veteran has their own story about what they've done for this country and why and the pride they feel in why they joined the military. I mean, every one of these numbers is a human and that is 100% lost in the Trump administration's efforts to just carry out these mass firings. And it's excruciating. I talked to a lot of I have talked to a number of people who have been fired arbitrarily in the last month. and each person's story is gut-wrenching.
Some people are like, "This was the best job I ever had. I took an oath to the Constitution to take this federal job working for the Treasury Department or working for the State Department or working for the VA or working for the education department. " You know, time and time again, people are like, "I took an oath to the Constitution to serve my country. This is I wake up every day feeling like I'm doing something for my country by going to work and trying to solve problems and make sure people get the services they need. And now I just got fired overnight because the Trump administration said you know based on performance but there's no I've always had strong performance reports.
There's no evidence. I've never done anything that was flagged as anything to do with poor per performance, but this is just the line that's being used to fire thousands of people. And it's just these are real people. It's gut-wrenching. It's not about politics about like a, you know, if someone's a Republican or a Democrat.
It's like these are just people trying to go to work and do a job they care about and that they're good at and getting thrown, you know, kicked to the curb. And so your question was you said something about empathy and compassion and it is all tangled up in the problem with what's happening right now with the Trump administration. But I do think you're right too that like the screens like talking like this I think you know that keeps people apart when they're not meeting in person when you when you are physically talking to someone in person there's so many other things going on in your interaction. You can shake a hand. you can put a hand on a shoulder when you can study body language more you there's all the all kinds of communication that happens in person that you don't get on a screen and I think co really [ __ ] us can you say bad words on your podcast okay I think co like really screwed us up because everybody had to retreat into their homes and be isolated for months and people were scared and sick and dying and we've emerged but there some things didn't bounce back and The divisions grew even further then as well.
You know like you went in one way and you came out a lot further. Yes. Kids were kids came out with you know educational delays and people came out socially awkward like people came out like I think kids came out like with new political views that they didn't have. News was always on. The parents are watching like COVID rates like people are fighting about masks and so kids came out.
I remember when people could finally like go outside and ride bikes around. My son was riding around and he had a mask on. " Like this just so nervous cuz I knew he was stopping and talking to kids and all this stuff. And a dad somebody's dad saw him and was like, "Get that mask off your face. " And I was like I'm like, "Oh my god, it's it's even worse.
Now we're in now we're including the kids like Yeah. in this. So yeah. So I think there have been a few factors that have kind of driven people apart from each other like we were saying between being online more and on screens versus in person and co kind of screwed us all up. and then honestly like the Trump administration coming in with the people that they're bringing in again and people like Elon Musk who's like jacked up on ketamine constantly and just making drastic crazy calls about like where to make cuts in the federal government and Trump just letting him do whatever.
I mean, you put it all together and there's just a lot of it's not a very joyful, hopeful moment because it feels like it's I mean, it feels like a bunch of Nazis are in charge. I mean, you've got like Elon Musk doing his salute, his Nazi salute. I Steve Bannon. Steve Bannon was just at CPAC, which is a conservative conference, a big annual cons, very conservative far-right conservative conference. Steve Bannon not to be one-ups by Elon Musk just did it yesterday at this conference.
The Nazi salute. thank you for that news. Thank you for the I mean it's just it's just popping up everywhere. All the January 6 defendants just released in mass from prison. Now they're just some of them have already been rearrested on other charges.
I mean it's the concept of law and order is being shaken. I mean it's not a great time. It's not. And and to make it even worse, I just read a statistic that like rape and violence against women is actually increasing for the first time in a long time. And I'm not saying well, I am saying that we have a rapable office and that and that our culture and how we speak about women has completely changed like or what's acceptable has completely changed.
I'm sure there were always people and I know there were always people who may have thought this way, but the fact that it's so overt and so acceptable to speak in the way that we speak about women and also the misinformation when it comes to issues like reproductive health and gender-based violence. They're that's completely skewed. People talking about postbirth abortions, which is nobody's killing live babies. So that's you know that's it's just outrageous. So, how are you seeing this playing out in your reporting, if at all?
How are you, what are you seeing in terms of the effect on women, even in how they live their day-to-day lives? I went to a doctor's appointment recently. I went to a couple. I scheduled them all for the same period of time, so I would like get all my annual visits done. And one was like at this kind of new place and it was like very sterile and the people who were walking in like quiet and all of a sudden I was you going to like I felt uneasy and I would never normally feel uneasy and there was no reason for it except for what I'm hearing in the world you know except for what I'm hearing about how we're treating women.
Are you seeing anything? I mean I think what I'm seeing is the burying of data. I think I'm seeing I watch I mean I cover politics and government so what I'm seeing is federal agencies disappearing data that sh that tells us things real things about women's health and women's economic successes or not or you know data around all things affecting women's lives is being some of it is being buried. one thing I'm thinking of right now is this is kind of a random example, but it's fresh on my mind. something that I have covered over the years is tribal issues.
I pay I try to pay attention to what's going on with policies that affect Native American communities and tribes and violence against Native American women is really high, especially on reservations. It's it's the highest the indigenous women face the highest rates of domestic violence of any group. it's been so bad that there's for years there's been a crisis and it's been referred to as the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous women for years because indigenous women are just being for decades. Indigenous women have been essentially been picked up in remote areas and kidnapped and forced into human trafficking. and then eventually some are turning up murdered and there's a connection between human trafficking and vulnerable women and remote areas and it's been a thing for a while.
so it finally percolated up enough to where Congress passed legislation in the last several years specifically to address the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous women. There have been reports that have looked more deeply into what's going on, drawing connections between these women, you know, why are they disappearing, where are they turning up, blah blah. one bill that passed was called the Not Invisible Act, and I followed that bill because I do cover these things. Essentially, that required federal agencies to work together to come up with recommendations for how to stop this from happening, to push back on it, what law enforcement agencies can do to help so in the end there was a mandated report about the not invisible act. It was called the not invisible act commission final report and all it was like months if not years of crossjurisdictional work between federal agencies talking together with tribes and federal law enforcement officials about what the best ways are to tackle this and they put out a final report.
It's a good thing, right? Like a report Yeah. available for all to see like to understand this problem and what people can what is being done, what can be done, signs to look out for, etc. Well, when the Trump administration came in January, this report suddenly disappeared and it is no longer available on the Justice Department's website. I know I only know this because somebody flagged it to me who worked on that report.
And so I went to go find it because I happen to know this issue because I've covered tribal issues for a while. And it's true. It's a dead page now on the Justice Department website. And all again, all it was is a report, a final report that laid out all the work that had been put into this effort to try to address violence targeting indigenous women. And this report is gone.
And I there's no reason to pull it down. I mean, it's I don't under this is a microcosm of something bigger going on. But this report is a good example of this administration is trying to erase information and data that is about violence targeting in this case indigenous women. violence against women generally and of course transgender people. They are just pulling data, erasing signs that transgender people even exist.
I mean, they literally took the tea off of an LGBT memorial or it was like a Stonewall. I guess it was like a monument or some kind of tribute. Yeah. They literally erased the fee. So, it's just LGBT memorial.
And it is it's like it's so petty to just literally go up and take a tea off, but it is absolutely emblematic of the eraser of certain people and certain issues that this administration is 100% trying to carry out because they don't want to they don't want people to pay attention to that. They want to erase the DEI defense, you know, the diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts of the Biden administration. But that's what they claim to be doing. But part of their motus apparendi is to like I said with the not invisible act report and the tea being erased at this at this memorial site. The overarching problem here is that they're trying to erase things that affect things about women, things that are data about women, things that are helpful for understanding women's health or women's safety.
They're just quietly disappearing these things from federal agencies websites. That is one way that women are just I would say that women are being hurt by what the Trump administration is doing across the board. They're just getting rid of data. Yeah. From they're getting rid of science.
They're doing [ __ ] at CDC. They don't they don't want people to talk about these things anymore. Not while they're in charge, which they seem to want to be forever. So, there's that also. And well, there's that's Yes, there's that, too.
So, I don't want to be an alarmist, but when So, I'm just going to I'm just going to carry on because I don't want to be But it's really It's really hard when you say those things because obviously like you're right, that's the tip of the iceberg. Somebody brought that to your attention. How many thousands of reports? How many how many things are we unaware of that are that are just not there anymore? And where are they going?
Like that's it. It's delete. Like is there is there backup? what are they doing with and all I mean and to be sure in the in the one example I gave the not invisible commission not invisible act commission's final report that is one report from one specific issue that is no longer on the justice department's website it's the justice department's own report and it's no longer on the justice department's website there I am certain that you could find that report somewhere it's not gone forever. All copies disappeared.
But my point is that is just one little example of something that is happening across agencies where very specific types of information is being erased. And the theme is that it is in again I don't mean to sound like a broken record but it is across the board. They are erasing science and data and information about women's health, about transgender people's health and transgender people's service in the military. never mind reproductive rights. Who knows what the [ __ ] they're doing at the Health and Human Services Commission right now with RFK Jr.
in charge, but they're going to be coming for vaccine. I mean, like the vaccine skepticism that RFK Jr. is going to be fanning. That is not specifically an assault on women per se, but I spoke to women should be alarmed because there's a pediatrician who serves in Congress. Her name is Congresswoman Shrier.
She's from Washington State. and again, she's a pediatrician, too. And I spoke to her last week about RFK Jr. being confirmed to lead HHS. Her number one concern with him being confirmed is that because of his powerful post, he oversees all of the federal health agencies like CDC, NIH, all of it.
Her number one concern is that even a whiff of him raising questions about the safety of vaccines, just not even like a full-on assault, just a hint of skepticism about the safety of vaccines is going to have ripple effects nationwide on moms and parents wondering whether they should not get them for their children. And it all it takes is a little bit of a dip in the country's population to stop getting them to fall below what she described as like the 90% threshold that we require for like herd immunity. And then you can have suddenly you're going to start potentially having outbreaks of totally preventable viruses and sicknesses that should never have happened. and her greatest like a big measles outbreak right now even and the measles outbreak is already on my radar that in Texas that should not be happening that is entirely preventable. but her this congresswoman's biggest concern is that we're going to start seeing epidemics of things that like measles like polio.
She's like, and she was like, "You know what? I'm I'm scared that it's going to have to come to people learning the absolute worst way possible that vaccines are safe because they're going to suddenly realize that their grandma gets like pneumacco pneumonia, which is treatable, and then she's going to die. And your neighbor's kid is going to get the measles and die. and your friends children down the street, someone's going to get polio like because they're just not totally sure they're comfortable with getting that vaccine because I mean even the nation's top health care policy person Jun he's saying that maybe that we should re-examine those and just that vague hint of question she said is hugely problematic. So these are the things that if you're talking about women M and like what you know what women what this administration is doing about you know that could be hurting women what I look at as a journalist about what's happening with women it's all connected it's like I worry about I worry about these things every day I worry about the vaccine skepticism picking up I worry about families now you know it's not like moms are the only ones in charge of children but my worry about moms suddenly not wanting to maybe get that one vaccine.
I worry about people not realizing that violence against women is a major epidemic because we don't have enough information being lifted up anymore. I worry about women being shut out of certain things, educational opportunities because certain diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives are being thrown out the door when there's clearly inequality and inequities in our culture. I mean, there women are affected across the board by what's going on. It's as a journalist, the things I'm watching are what people like RFK Jr. are doing and things like reports disappearing that provide people with data and understandings of real life things that happened to women.
You know, you're talking about this like things disappearing, you can't help but think of like the old George Orwell book 1984. But it's also it's crazy because it's it will change our very culture in ter like there's a show it's a TV show called Never Have I Ever on Netflix. It's Mindy Kaling show and my daughter really loved it. Actually, I really loved it also and I think you would really love it too. You should totally watch it.
She's too little. Anyway, so we watched it and at one point the girl there's a girl and she loves like she's in love with like kind of the stereotypical dumb jock, right? He's very handsome and he really doesn't know anything and she's an Indian girl and so she's not allowed to have this boyfriend. Her mom's strict not supposed to have any boyfriend at all and she's trying to get him to stay away from her house. So she's like, "You can't come.
You can't you can't take me home. My mom's sick. " And it's it's a joke. It's obviously a joke that he doesn't get that she doesn't have polio because he's like this dumb guy. " So like the joke continues but very in the too distant future this is not going to be a joke like it will go down I mean I don't think people understand the level that this will trickle down into their lives like it will be everything it's affecting everything and the women that I speak to in all different areas like doing different things and helping their communities or doing things on behalf of other women in every avenue it's happening like in every field like I work with all I talked to a lot of fem people in women's wellness and you know their big thing is always that women are 51% of the population but we didn't start doing studies on women's health until 1987 until 1987 they weren't required to be part of testing which is for lots of reasons but also crazy right because we're not just women in men's bodies we have different bodies we have different issues are we are the number one we die of cardiovascular health in a different way.
There are different science signals etc. So last year was like a record year for investment in what they call feech which is the umbrella term for like women's health like innovation and that record amount was 2% of the overall healthcare funding and it's like you this is just going to so and I have friends now who are working on projects where scientists are like unfortunately I can't back you on this I can't do the research that's required for this because now I no longer I'm allowed to research this. So it's it's going to come in every single every single part of our lives is affected. And so that's the one thing I wanted to say, but the other thing I wanted to say is what about the women in Congress? Like so, so we're dealing with this and you would think you want to say, "Hey, you're also a woman.
" Like say something. Do something. Don't don't let this guy in. Don't let this Don't let Elon Musk do this. like you have to have some power in Congress.
What are you seeing? Are you seeing a shift in how women lawmakers are treated? Are they not being acknowledged or are they just not stepping up? I know there are I know there are plenty of people stepping up and I appreciate all of them, but I mean there's just such an overwhelming amount of bad news. You have to think who is doing something about this?
So, what are you seeing in terms of Congress and the women there? Well, I think you have to break that down a little bit because there's women in Congress. So that but you break it down first in the House versus the Senate. Two totally different chambers with like just a very different even culture going on within those two chambers because the House is like a zoo of [ __ ] children. The Senate is where the more mature, refined, refined senators more thoughtfully think about policy.
" So it's very different scene. Okay. Culture have to know that. So then you've got women in who are Democrats and then Republicans in both chambers. So that's also a different situation.
collectively I would say there is not a unified sense of women all through Congress being unified on anything. There just not I mean you've got Marjorie Taylor Green in the House and you've got like I don't know Elizabeth Warren in the Senate. I mean could you Right. Right. What could they possibly ever agree on as Yeah.
So there's that. But I would say that generally because Democrats don't have any real power right now. They're not like absolutely helpless, but they don't they're not in the majority in either chamber. They don't control the White House. So they're they're basically in there fighting back against stuff whenever they can based on the rules.
I would say that in the Senate what you're going to see is publicly generally I think you will see I mean Democrats generally men and women are writing letters there's a lot of letters flying right now a lot of letters about concerns you know concerns very concerned being written by Democrats women and men in the Senate to the leader like cabinet secretaries at the EPA or at HHS saying, you know, dear Secretary Kennedy, we are very concerned about your what rules you're going to push through that affect women's access to abortion. You know, so I'm just making this up, but like there's a lot of letters that are coming from women and men. There's correspondence. There's a lot of corresponding happening. but generally Democrats are writing a lot of letters and having little like rallies with angry federal workers to show like concerns and to show visibly that like they look like they're fighting, right?
Can't do a ton in the minority, right? Showing up at in front of TV cameras saying we're going to fight and they're writing a lot of letters. What Tik Toks see a lot of Tik Tok, you know, that's not worth nothing, but it's still it's that's not changing a ton. I don't I honestly don't know what a lot is that they could be doing, but that they can't do it. What about like I know Susan Collins sided with the Democrats in the No, I was just talking about the Democrats.
Now, let's talk about the women Republicans who are in the majority. what you're seeing mostly, let's talk about the Senate, where there it's again it's the more highbrow law makingaking. you've got a handful of senators in there who are Republicans who are a little bit squishy and sometimes will speak up about something that's really obviously bad and wrong. the big names that usually get thrown around are Susan Collins and Lisa Marowski. " I mean, she'll like it doesn't even matter like almost what is going on.
She will have concerns and she's sort of notorious for airing concerns about something and then not actually following through with a vote that matches concern. didn't she I remember during the Kavanaaugh I remember her having concerns and then throwing and then voting for him and giving a speech on the Senate floor about why she's voting for him. So that's Susan Collins in a nutshell. A Democratic senator once told me that Susan Collins is great at being there when you don't need her. And what that means, and it's true, she will show up and vote with Democrats on something every now and then when it doesn't actually affect the outcome of the vote.
but she'll go on record voting with them. She will not be the one that takes the stand. So, that's not Lisa Marowski is probably the strongest ally that women and people who have concerns with the Trump administration have in the Senate. She will actually buck her party. She will buck the Trump administration.
She will speak publicly about things that Trump is doing that are that are really bad and dangerous and damaging. so she's the one Republican woman, I would say, in Congress, honestly, in both chambers who comes to mind, who will stand up and say and actually do things, vote, use her vote. Well, how long how long do you think she'll be there? Because I mean, like, look at Liz Cheney. I mean, I don't know.
But well, Liz Cheney was in the House and that's a different game than being in the Senate. said it. But I mean, I think had she fallen in line wouldn't have had to probably worry, right? I mean, she's Well, again, it's different in the House and Senate because every two years you're up for re-election in the House. Every six years, you're up for re-election in the Senate.
And senators are more It's just a different It's a different game. It's a different election process. So, you're pretty comfortable in the Senate for several years, okay? Because you don't have to run again. and Lisa Marowsky is pretty popular back home.
And she's also very good at winning because every state is different. She has kind of a unique base of supporters of Democrats, independents, and moderate Republicans back home. So, she doesn't she knows her voters. She knows her constituents. Alaska doesn't have that many people, and they all know her.
So, she's everybody's unique politically. Everybody brings something different and has a different voting base. But all this to say, Lisa Marowski truly, as I run through people in my mind, she is the only Republican I can think of in the House or the Senate who's a woman who will actually stand up and call things out that are destructive and not Republican or Democrat, just truly like dangerous things to do and vote accordingly. She's the only one in both the Senate and Congress. He's the only one I can think of right now.
Yeah. I mean, in the Senate, for sure. In the House, where there's, you know, 435 people, a lot more people in there. I mean, women are already there are already much fewer women in there than men. And so then you work with that base and all the women I can think of in there who are not Democrats who are women are either most of them just stay quiet.
They stay quiet and they vote. They vote with the party line. You don't hear Republican women speak out against Trump about anything to do with Trump. And again, it's not about just like, you know, speaking out against Trump just to, you know, speak out. It's like when something is legitimately rising to the surface that is really scary and dangerous for millions of people that has nothing to do with being a Republican or Democrat, you people just stay quiet.
They publicly they will not say anything. And now, of course, there are stories, there's plenty of reporting that suggests like behind the scenes, Republican women and men, some are raising concerns with the administration are hearing feedback from their constituents that is not good. People are scared and angry about things the Trump administration is doing, but they are not publicly going to talk about it because they don't want to be seen publicly as breaking from Trump because and then it gets down to like, well, are they just a bunch of cowards? Like they just are only focused on re-election. I would say for the most part, yes.
I also do think there's an element of fear that is that goes beneath that. I think that some people are scared of being physically attacked. I think that some Republican members, I've heard and read some in some cases that some have faced death threats themselves. They don't want to put themselves in a position where they will face potentially death threats or violent attacks if they break with Trump. So, there's this other element now, not just cowardice, but a darker fear.
Yeah. Yes. And I don't I'm not saying that they're all doing this and operating this way, but I absolutely think that is an element here. " I mean, it's that's terrifying. That is terrifying.
And it all, you know, when you said they're just quiet, like that's like the most alarming thing I feel like you've said this whole entire time, which is crazy. They are quiet. They they don't want to say anything publicly that will show that they are breaking from Trump. And you can chalk it up to just like we like I said, you can chalk it up to like, oh, I don't want to say anything. I don't want to look out of line and make myself a target for getting primaried by somebody more to the right of me.
But I also perhaps on another level in some cases I think people are scared of what it would mean for their own physical safety or for getting certain threats. People get death threats constantly as members of Congress. But the thing is, I mean, I think people to some degree have always been, you know, if you're in the public eye, you have a I remember being a kid and being like, I want to be famous and then John London got shot like no like I don't want anything to do with this. So, there's a there's probably an element of that's always been, but now people are actually going through with it. They attempted to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer.
Nancy Pelosy's husband was attacked in his home. like physical attacks are happening to our elected politicians and really it's happening to the women like Nancy Pelosy's husband but it was the attack on Nancy Pelosi. I mean women certainly I would not be surprised at all if women in Congress get much more threats than men just because sexism and patriarchy. But I mean yes people someone tried to assassinate Trump twice. but I think that is part of something bigger where I mean gun look it's all there's all these moving pieces to this right like gun control has been rolled back in all kinds of red states and counties and this administration is certainly proun and not a fan of having gun safety and you pair that with like ratcheted up rhetoric about violence and the president himself saying you know, vowing to hurt, punch, and hurt people and threaten people and then his supporters feel emboldened to do the same and walk around with guns and all don't forget about January 6, 2021, the actual insurrection that we had at the Capitol building.
Those people are all out of jail now because of Trump. And so there's different pieces to this that are painting a picture of a much more violence friendly, gunfriendly, anti-woman, anti-lack, anti- trans, anti- brownskinned world, a culture that we live in right now. And you can trace that into what the administration is doing at agencies. Like I was saying before, it's tied into certain reports disappearing now about women or about violence against women or about trans people or efforts to just make things not exist anymore and open up the public sphere to only talking about disenfranchised white men who feel left behind. And now is their chance to feel emboldened to pour their rage out into the world and treat everybody else like [ __ ] It all sounds super like a super villain.
Like there's like this giant nefarious plan. And I don't know if you have any insights on what that plan is. Of course, my brain is like going, you know, I mean, and a lot of people a lot of people are like, "That's it. I'm leaving the country. I'm doing this.
" had a lot of like there's a lot of theorizing about what is the end goal here for the Trump administration and how that's going to affect everybody else. But what do you think people should be paying attention to right now? Like if you had to limit it to three things, like what do you think we should be paying the most attention to at the moment? If you can even address I mean there's so many things that's the problem. There's so many things our direction is so split because it's like whiplash.
Every day you're finding out something else. So what where are you keeping your focus? What do you recommend? Well, you're right. That is part of what's going on here.
The idea is that the Trump administration and his surrogates want to flood the zone, right? They're trying to flood us with constant information and overwhelm people with drastic harmful decisions over and over and over again to the point where people are can't process it all and start to feel defeated and overwhelmed and cynical and tap out. And this is a playbook that is the is how authoritarian leaders take hold. I mean this is there is a playbook and this is it. You wear everybody down to the point where they're just broken down and cynical and just give up.
And to me I think the way I approach this as a journal is covering it which is entirely different than just a person living in this. It is waking up every day and specifically looking at it all day long and talking to people yourself daily. Yes. And talking to people who have the ability to affect change but don't. And I think to me it's a it's a matter of pacing yourself and not letting not letting it break you down.
You have to for anyone trying to consume all this news all the time and a lot of it is scary. objectively scary and dangerous and harmful and cruel because again the cruelty is the point to certain people. I think the things the thing I would encourage people to do going forward is pace yourself and don't let it get you down. don't like in the handmaid's tail there's a a kind of nonsensical phrase but that is like the mantra for the handmmaids which is it's it's in Latin but the translation is don't let the bastards get you down and that is what keeps and all the other handmaids going as they fight to break you know to be free and to free women from the dystopian world that they have been thrust into. So in that vein, I do think I think people can get through this by taking things one day at a time and grounding yourself with your with your family and your friends and remembering joy and doing things in your life that are joyful and taking breaks from trying to take it all in and then coming back and taking it.
Just pick something. Pick something in this that really gets to you and drill down into it a little bit. and try to have an effect on that thing instead of trying to do it all. and I do think something's going to give. I'm not someone who subscribes to this idea that it's over, democracy is gone.
because some people feel that way right now, like this is the end. And I get it. I absolutely get it. I also think that there are still checks in place to stop some at least some of this and I do think we're going to end up with a huge mess that people are going to have to pick up the pieces from to move forward. I don't think it's the end.
I think people have to be strong right now and speak up when things aren't right and pace yourself because things are going to shift again. They always shift. This is the pendulum swinging into the absolute worst place. And I think it's going to get worse right now. I do.
I think people are going to have to feel real pain. I think people are going to die. Unfortunately, I'm not trying to paint the most depressing picture ever, but if we keep going at this rate, people are going to start dying from not getting vaccinated. People are going to have botched abortions. People are going to have people are I know it.
But it's gonna I feel like it's got to get worse. People are going to start getting sick with things they should never have gotten because they should have been vaccinated. People are going to People's food isn't going to be as safe to eat anymore because we're scaling back people at the FDA. People are going to not have medicines for things because science has been gummed up and shackled up from progressing. these are going to have real world effects and consequences that are ugly.
And I think I feel like things have to get even worse for people to see it and feel it before people are like regular people will be like, "Okay, this is not okay. " So I guess your original question was what should people focus on? Well, I would say focus on the people around you. Like remember this is real people who are scared and you know we're all we all want the same thing, right? We all want to have healthy, happy families and to be able to pay our bills and to enjoy life before we all die.
So, what do we need to do to take care of each other? You're like so first of all, you've always been like this. You've we've always laughed a lot together and like I really attribute that to you because I will get like morose in two seconds and you make me laugh and so we laugh together. But you always are an optimist. you always or at least that's how you appear to be.
You appear to be an optimist and have this optimistic view of things like you don't think it's the end. You think it's going to be a struggle but you don't think it's the end and all this stuff. How do you how do you make that work with people who are like actively cheering on this type of destruction? Like how do you and this is totally personal so if you want me to just delete it I can. But like how do you handle, you know, I have people in my life that I know are still supporting this administration and you know maybe it's just with their vote, but it's probably with their wallets and that there's a lot of different ways they can support it.
They're outspoken, etc. And it's I mean it's it's affecting a lot of relationships for people. " But a second time is when you when you see the when you see the damage that's been done, when you see the January 6th insurrection and you see the attacks on democracy and what happened and then you support him again, it's it's actually mind-boggling. So, and I know you're, you know, you're in a like DC has its own kind of liberal bubble, but you're dealing with actual lawmakers that are that are supporting this. How are you, like you said, how are you interacting with these people that you know could make a change, but choose to I've been doing this for a long time.
So does that mean you're totally burned out and want to just No, no. I mean I have talked to Republicans in Congress and Democrats in Congress who on almost every possible policy issue you can imagine. I have covered it in over the years. I've watched them new people come in, old people leave. I've watched the reshuffleling of the decks.
I've watched different parties resume control and then lose control, the other party taking control, then them then that party losing control and it flip-flopping between the two chambers and the White House. Like, I've seen a lot and I think that this is a more a scarier, darker time than I've seen in the past, but it is still the same players. And so there's a lot of things that they say privately that are not being said publicly. And I think when you cover them, you get a start to get a sense of what those things are that are private. It's just a question of what's it going to take for them to say it publicly.
And this is not a defense of any of them at all, but I think that I think something's going to give. I think that even a handful of Republicans are going to be in the Senate and in the House. There's little tiny signs of it happening already and it's only February. but that's because there's been such drastic, horrible, farreaching actions taken already. So, of course, they're being pushed into uncomfortable places as politicians.
But, some people will just never fold and they'll just go down with a ship. But there is a squishy area where just enough of them I think eventually are going to snap because in the end they're going to be hearing back home from people who are really hurting to the point where it's going to become deafening and the fear of standing up to Trump I have to believe is they're going to ultimately listen to what their constituents are saying. So people at home who are constantly if people are increasingly suffering at home, I think that senators and members of Congress are going to hear it and they'll be privately talking about it with each other. And then at some point I just at the rate things are going, it's only been a month, but it's been one hell of a month of massive destruction within the federal government. I do think that things something's going to give.
You can't operate like this all the time. You just can't. The government can't take it. Senators and members of Congress have to go home and hear [ __ ] at home from their constituents. There was a viral video from last night that just happened to one member who went home where people were in a town hall.
I think this was a Pennsylvania member. can't remember but a Republican member where people at a town hall were basically screaming at him like what doge Elon Musk's doge is destroying our community like what is what are you doing like you represent us don't let this happen and this was at a town hall when a member is hearing directly from the people who voted for him so I think that I think something's going to give I think something's going to have to break I don't know when it's going to happen. I don't know who is going to step up in the Republicans, but some just enough of them are going to have to. And I think at some point we'll get there. I just don't know when and how much damage will have to have happened by then.
But you're already seeing little signs. You're seeing little signs of it already. A couple Republicans have said things very defiantly clashing with Trump about Ukraine, for example, because Trump called Zalinsky a dictator and not Putin. And it is clearly like the some serious gaslighting and distortion happening by Trump. So some Republicans who are in foreign policy are like I can't even they are like that's not true.
We're not that's absolutely not true. We stand by Ukraine. I don't know. You know the president is wrong. And that might sound like an obvious thing to say but the fact that they will say it publicly is something.
It's something. It's I just I wish it didn't come down to and I you know I just you know wish it were a whole idealistic world where it didn't come down to your constituents but your conscience where you're like hey this is just wrong like it or not it's just wrong like but I guess we don't we don't really have a lot of that. If I've learned anything in doing this for so long, it's that the number one thing that drives virtually every single member of Congress and both parties across the board is the need to get reelected. You can have strong principles or not, and some do. And I value when people do have strong values, but ultimately in the vast majority of cases, the one thing, not all cases, but the vast majority of cases, the one thing driving all of them is the need to get reelected.
That's it. Awesome. That's great. I don't say that cynically. I don't say it cynically.
I say it as like a fact. Like, I see it. And yes, you can have convictions. And yes, there are cases of people being like, "Fuck it. " 95% of the time, it is about getting reelected.
And you realize that through parties, through different numbers, both chambers, everything. Then you start to see like, okay, well, what is your biggest threat to getting reelected? Oh, it's that you're not doing anything about Doge slashing people's jobs and your communities and them all being scared and asking your office what's happening and please help me and I voted for you last time and I thought you would be there for me and now you're not. Like that [ __ ] gets in their ears. That's the [ __ ] that will make them suddenly have a change of heart.
Well, the what my takeaway from this is then do not like this is not a time to be quiet. Like this is absolutely no situation. Well, don't people should take care of themselves first off. This is a very difficult time for millions of people job-wise, emotionally, all the things. People need to take care of themselves right now.
Make sure they're okay. That said, this is the time to make noise. This is the time to make your politicians know exactly where you stand and why, especially if you voted for them and if you're not happy with what they're doing. This is the time to b like flood the zone with your feedback because they listen to their constituents. They'll listen to constituents more than outside groups more than reporters.
I mean, they listen to the people who voted for them. If you didn't vote for your elected official and you still are sharing stories with them about being hurt by things happening by this administration, they're listening. Thank you for that. that gives people, you know, because it's like it's very easy, I think, to feel hopeless. Of course, like a tangible thing we can do like we can we can do this people.
We can do this. Like I mean the public the protests, the rallies, the the flood of messages to elected officials at all levels, that stuff matters. It I don't say that in a cheesy way. Like it actually has an effect. If you keep doing that, it has an effect.
It wears people down. It wears down the people who you're trying to reach because they see it. You know, if they get one message from you saying like, "Hey, can you tell me what's going on? " That's one thing. But if you're like, "Hi, this is who I am.
I'm in your district. I lost my job. " I think, you know, I was reading about Elon Musk tapping into social security systems and now I can't, you know, things that you just tell them what's happening to you and if it's not good, they're going to listen. They hear it. They get it.
I'm saying this with broad brushes, but it's if their constituents concerns when they start to pile up, that's a problem for them. And what do they care about more than almost anything? getting reelected. So that's where you get it. You get them where it counts.
That gets their attention for sure. " So wait, how what fresh hell awaits me? I wake up every morning, Danielle. I know. And then you go impale yourself at least.
Then I come home and stare at the ceiling. Don't wait. And this is the last thing. How what drives you to keep going? And how can we support you so you do keep going?
Because the last thing we need Well, my VMO account, you know, is kidding. I'll share it. I'll share it. No, please don't. what keeps me going?
I mean, this I mean, you have to keep going. You're just going to lay down and die. I mean, you have to keep going. Yeah. Like, what keeps you doing this?
Well be because what could you could leave right you could just like so many people are talking about people leave the country people are you know I mean I've seen all over the place which are the best countries to go to which is good for women of color which is good for this which is good for that my father has grandparents from Ireland that's our track like everybody's got a thought in their head whether they are doing it or not they thought well what if right you're not just living through it you're every day like you said going down there and interacting with these people and so what is driving you to continue a career in journalism right now? There's nothing stopping you from switching careers going into finance like a finance pro. but so like what's what's driving you to keep going? I still think it's the best job in the world. You go up to powerful people and you push them on things that they don't want to talk about because they have to be accountable to the people who put them in there in the first place.
It's it's a to me it's it's speaking truth to power. I love that. It feels good. It feels like you're you're challenging people who are telling you something that is bad and expecting you to just accept that. And I know a lot of people read I mean the Huffington Post has a huge platform.
And it's not all progressives. There's a lot of conservative people who read us, too. And I want people to know what's going on because if I don't do it, who's going to do it? You know, we need people to do it. And there's no one else coming.
Danielle, we're it. We're it. Yes. You know, so if I'm position, if I'm in this position, I have this job and I've been doing it for a long time. I'm good at my job.
I know how to do this. I know these people. And it's a really [ __ ] scary time. And it's depressing and overwhelming. And it does feel like you just want to give in to hopelessness.
It's also I happen to be in a job right now where I can go up to the people who can do something and push them on why they're not doing anything. And that feels good because most people can't do that. And I want to do that. And I want people to know what happens when I go try to do that. And what do they say?
I want people to see that because they think it keep going. Thank you. That's what I'm saying. Like if I can get in there and ask these people questions about like, hey, did you know that vote you just took? You just basically like voted against your own state.
you voted against your own district because what you just did is put someone in charge of something who has explicitly said they're going to gut I'm just making this up but like they're going to gut funding for cancer research. Did you know that you know you have the largest cancer research institute in the whole country senator? Why would you support that person knowing that they're going to gut something that's going to directly hurt your community? Why did you do that? And they're not going to volunteer that information themselves.
You have to push them way in front of a reporter. Like what are you going to do? Literally walk away. Sometimes they do. Sometimes like got to go got a meeting.
You pretend to be on the phone. " Like, and then now you start to see stories about like senator so and so says they regret voting for this nominee. That's been happening. And that's Democrats, too. Some Democrats have been voting for some of Trump's cabinet secretaries, and like a week later, they're being pushed by reporters to say, "Why'd you do that?
" And now there's at least two or three senators who are Democrats who have said, "I regret voting for the VA secretary. I regret voting for this secretary. I shouldn't have done that. " Yes. But what does that tell you that they're saying that?
Well, it means that like someone's watching them and realizing what they're doing is going to harm people that these senators claim to be protecting and now they're being called out on it. " There you go. Now everybody can see the senator just said they made a big mistake, which is rare to see, by the way. They don't like to admit mistakes and that they're not and then they get called out. It's about being held accountable and these are powerful people who need to be held accountable.
That's it. Exactly. Exactly. And that's why we need the free press to do this. Hold people accountable.
And it's about it's pretty simple. It's not about like what is truth, you know? It's like literally go up to someone and start talking to them, write down what they said, and then tell everybody else what they said. Like that's it. That's it.
Yeah. There's no spin. It's when there's a secret sauce, right? Literally talking to people. I asked this question and you said that and then I wrote it down on a piece of paper and then I put it over there.
so you all can see it. That's it. That's you just have to know the right questions to ask. That's it. And by right, I mean informed.
That's the whole job. That is that is the other side of it. But that's a whole other hour. Yes. You just have to be an informed person asking questions.
You have to be curious. Be curious and be informed and go ask questions that pop up that you think are important. There's a lot of like independent journalism right now and I'm not knocking because there's a lot of like Jessica Valente writes an abortion everyday Substack which I subscribe to and it's chalk full of information and she has been a reporter in various places so I trust her word. I trust where she's coming from but it's you know it's hers she can do with it what she chooses to do. If tomorrow she decides it's rainbow day then tomorrow it's rainbow day according to her followers.
It's whatever it is. She's held to no standard but the standard that her community holds her to. Right. So that's also the same from the flip side. Like you're having people like super right-wing lunatics coming out with their own, you know.
That's right. And so that's the problem with just completely independent. Yes. Yes. You have to be listening to the right people.
And how do you determine who those people are? Just out of curiosity. Like for me, I'm like, "Okay, this is a real person. I've connected with this person on LinkedIn. We've talked.
This is where they wrote like this is their history. Yes, I will look at their newsletter. " But if there's a thing for people to look for, do you recommend anything? I mean, the standard is like because you're right, the the amount of misinformation and disinformation now being circulated all the time on the internet, but also on like Fox News and other like streaming services. Like, how do you figure out where to get your news from?
How do you know where it's like real? And by real, I mean like based in facts and like actual like informative research, like things that are based in things that we can believe in, right? Yeah. the kind of the rule of thumb is like well first of all start with places that have a mast head like that have a full-blown staff, you know, not just some dude in his closet. Not to say that like a dude in his closet can't produce some Hey, but I'm like a dude in a closet.
I mean, if you're a chick in a box, you know, but you know, having a mast head for starters is like a real news outlet. You have a publisher. You have a staff. You have editors. you have yeah, fact checkers.
I mean, so that's a good starting place for a real news outlet, but you know, of course, some places have a masked head that they put out stories that are not based in facts. And so for me personally, I read people's stories. I find I read story I read a lot of news articles and then I work kind of work backwards like, oh, that was a really good piece. by so and so like it was they talked to people who are academics in that piece to back up points they were making. So that shows me that they care about education and science and data backing up things you say.
and they talk about issues that are relevant to what things that are being discussed right now. Like in the general, you know, national conversation, I care about issues that are popular in the conversation right now. What's on people's minds? So, this person is on top of like what is currently being, you know, a hot topic. I'd like to know more about what people are saying.
so for me, I just look I read news. I read articles from the standards like the New York Times, the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, etc. But then like you were saying the people who have their own subscriptions to like their blogs or like their newsletters. I read through a lot but it's the ones that speak for themselves. And it's not like I'm looking for a certain point of view on anything like a bias.
I'm looking for a solidly reported piece or a particularly insightful perspective on things that's tied to history or tied to, you know, recent events or tied to, you know, academic research or something. Something that shows me that it's grounded in something. That's where I look. So, I'm not sure if I even answered your question. I'm I'm constantly reading.
I think it's such a hard thing because you can't be like it's XYZ because there are so many things coming up all the time. I would stick I would stick to like the mainstream. I know mainstream, you know, news outlets don't always strike the right tone and kind of sometimes have the wrong tone. I'm thinking of the New York Times absolutely like just like failing to meet the moment with the way it talks about some pretty serious scary things and downplaying things for this seriousness, you know, for how bad they are. that always the New York Times and the Washington Post are pretty good, but like honestly the Huffington Post, not to toot our horn, but like we have very solid reporters who are experienced in this work and who are very well connected to their beats, to people who work on things that we talk about, people who are at institutions, people on the street.
We're very good at like interviewing, just talking to people affected by things going on. So, just real people being able to share their own experience with things. just look for look for stories that are actually like tied to facts and tied to people doing real reporting. That's where I go. And stories that are compelling that feel like they matter.
They're not making trying to create a problem where there isn't one. Like I'm thinking of like attacks on trans people right now. Like don't look for sto you know stories that are trying to make you know have the lavender scare or you know the trans scare stories that like stories about things that like oh like trans people they all regret like transitioning or you know there's like all kinds of ways people talk about issues like trans related issues and the I'm not interested in stories that are just like it's like they have a goal of trying to they have a they start out with a with a story they want to write and then they work backwards versus following the story and seeing where it takes you. You know what I mean? Like you don't start out with a preconceived notion of your story.
You talk to people, you talk to smart people. You talk to people affected by things. You talk to researchers and then your story is there because you've pieced things together that are valid sources. Right. It's like it's exact.
You're reminding me of like a crime show where they're like they've decided somebody's guilty so they're going to find all the pieces to make them guilty. It's like do you ever watch Only Murders in the building? Yes. I love it. Like there's been so many times where you're like oh my god it's that person isn't it?
And it's like no it's not. It's that person and it's like no it's not. But like obviously the story the show is structured to make you sort of think it's someone based on certain clues but it's never that person. " You know, but it's sort of like that. It's like you don't you have to I read I'm drawn to articles that are that dig in and have like real reporting with solid sources.
That's it. And are compelling, that are well written, you know. Yeah. Well, we really appreciate your time. We being me and my mom would definitely watch.
But hold on. Hopefully there's a few. I'm very happy to be here with you guys. I'm so glad. I can't thank you enough and I will hopefully be visiting you soon, but I'll give you notice more than this.
This isn't like me just showing up at your door. Of course, you can come anytime. Oh, you know I'm going. Great. Thank you so much.
I'm sorry if we held you up to submitting your story. You guys You guys did not hold me up. Goodbye. Have a great day. Goodbye.
Thank you. Well, that's it for today. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of ROAR. Huge thanks to our guest, Jennifer Bendery, for sharing her insights and pulling back the curtain on the stories shaping our country, whether we see them on the front pages or not. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast, leave a review, and share Roar with a friend who needs to hear it.
Every single review and share helps amplify these important conversations. And come on back next week when I'm talking to author Kirstston Miller whose books The change and Lula Dean's little library of band books are both unput downable. While we mostly dive into patriarchy power, and the incredible work she's doing through her newsletter to support women and girls, reading the books wouldn't hurt. Trust me, you'll be glad you did.
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