Dr. Jennifer Hintzsche on Unexplained Infertility, Women's Innovation, and the Birth of PherDal

We talk about “unexplained infertility” like it’s a dead end.

But what if it’s actually a starting point—one that sparks innovation, agency, and a new way forward for millions of women?

In this episode of Roar, host Danielle Davies sits down with Dr. Jennifer Hintzsche, the scientist and founder behind PherDal Fertility Science, the first and only FDA-cleared, sterile, at-home insemination kit.

After being told she had unexplained infertility—and handed a loan application instead of a treatment plan—Jennifer refused to accept “there’s nothing we can do” as an answer.

Drawing on her background in bioinformatics and her determination to take control of her own body, she designed the prototype that would eventually become PherDal—a life-changing innovation that’s helped dozens of families conceive safely, affordably, and on their own terms.

Together, Danielle and Jen talk about

💥 The moment Jen decided to take fertility science into her own hands.

💬 How a $10,000 clinical procedure inspired a $199 at-home alternative.

⚗️ Why women’s health research lags decades behind—and how bias still shows up in medicine.

💪 What happens when women stop waiting for permission to solve their own problems.

❤️ How purpose and spite can both be powerful motivators for change.

Jennifer’s story is proof that innovation doesn’t always start in a lab—it starts with a woman who refuses to give up.

🔑 Key Takeaways

“Unexplained” isn’t the end of the story—it’s the beginning of innovation.

Women’s health deserves data, funding, and respect equal to every other field of medicine.

Sometimes the best ideas come from lived experience, not credentials.

When women design solutions for women, the world changes.

Listen to ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture & Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. New conversations every Tuesday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZNXmfYR0QA

Full Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and lightly cleaned up. It may contain small errors.

something. Hi, I'm Danielle Davies and you're listening to Roar, a show that amplifies the voices of women breaking barriers, leading change, and making real impact. Keep listening for bold ideas and stories that inspire you to find your voice, and make some noise. Everybody, I'm Danielle Davies, the host of Roar. Today's guest refused to accept a label that millions of women hear and quietly carry, infertile.

Instead, Dr. Jennifer Hintzsche used her PhD in biioinformatics along with a whole lot of determination to invent a medical device that not only helped her conceive her own daughter, but became the first and only FDA cleared sterile atome insemination kit. It's called Fertile and it's won several awards including time best inventions of 2024 and Inc. top 500 female founders. Since then, Jen's not only changed her own story, she's changing how we think about fertility, innovation, and the power of women saying there has to be a better way.

We're talking about science, stigma, and the courage it takes to rewrite the narrative for yourself and for millions of others. Welcome, Jen. Thank you. That was like the nicest welcome ever. Oh my god.

I try. I try. I got Can you do that like as I walk in the kitchen for my family? 100%. I'm actually like considering offering it as a service.

Like I should to people, you know, wherever you are like an Applebee's, you walk in, I you walk in and you just have a microphone. And I would be the most confident woman in the world if you could. That's I think we all need to just hear this all the time. like right. well, thank you so much for being here.

So, full disclosure, we have met before. If anybody for the people listening, we met at a fem conference, which I highly recommend. I don't know if you met Jenny Lyn Walden there. Yes. Yes.

Jenny and I like joke all the time about like it's Hasbro Heights. Like who would have known the amazing people you'd meet in Hasbro Heights? That was such a good conference. Yeah. Such a good conference.

so even there you were winning awards. You were right. [clears throat] You won that. You won that. Yeah, I won the pitch competition.

Yeah. Yes. So, let's I think it's back there. Yeah. Oh, good.

Yeah, that was that was awesome. So, that's where I first heard about what you were doing and met you. [clears throat] But let's talk about this for the people who don't know what Fertile is. But first, we're going to just start at the very beginning because this is really a key part of your story. Not just what you did, but why and how you did it.

So, you've said you refused to accept infertile as your diagnosis. Can you walk us through that moment when like your, you know, grief, your frustration, your anger turned into action and you thought, you know what, maybe I'm just going to handle this myself. Yes. Hold on one second. Sorry.

Didn't want to didn't want to cough microphone. oh, that moment. I can tell you I was in my husband's truck. We had just left the fertility clinic. like it's one of those memories you can like smell.

Do you know what I mean? Like and we had just spent the day. I was half naked running around getting poked and prodded and I genuinely hop skipped and jumped into that fertility clinic because I was like I had to wait a year to get there. So, we had to fail at having sex to conceive a child for an entire year before we were allowed to see a fertility clinic. And so, I go in with all of this hope and I'm like so ready and like, yes, tell me what's wrong, please.

Like, bring everybody in. Does anyone else want to like I open book. and then my husband goes in the room, does his thing. I'm making inappropriate jokes. We sit down with the doctor.

" And of all the scenarios in my head, that wasn't one of them. and for context at the time I am a PhD cancer research scientist who does personalized medicine for oncologists. So my day job was finding what therapies one individual person could try to treat their individual tumor regardless of the cancer. So and like presenting it to oncologists. So, I'm sitting here in a clinical setting thinking every doctor cares that much, right?

To have like the personalized, and a lot of them do. I'm not Dr. Hading. and he goes, "Everything's normal. " And I genuinely laughed.

I laughed. " And he's like, "It's really common. " And I was like, "Did you did you think of just explaining it though? Can we just No. Okay.

and so I'm I'm taking this in because I laughed inappropriately taking it in. " He handed me a packet that was already like sitting next to his desk ready to hand out. and it was a loan application and he said, "Now that you have this diagnosis of unexplained infertility in your medical chart, because I just gave it to you, all of your insurance from here on out is cut off. They will not treat unexplained infertility. It is not legally required.

It is a basically cosmetic. You know, it's not life-threatening. I got a question. What? Oh, ask all the questions.

What does unexplained infertility rule out? Like what is explained fertility? If 30% of people, you said it's about 30 are unexplained at the at the fertility clinic. Yeah. So, so they've already gone through a year.

For those other 70, there's some reason they're not able to conceive that they know of. Is that what you're saying? Like probably. But I'll tell you that there's also like another gray area of I don't know. Like it's really hard to diagnose endometriosis.

Like they think everyone if you're slightly overweight, which I was, have PCOS. " And I'm going I don't have any of the symptoms of PCOS, but like which he would have known if he had looked at all in my chart. But so but yes, there are legitimate and don't get me wrong, there are legitimate conditions where people need it. But like this is one day and you came up with this. So yeah, there are other like there's male factor infertility.

Ryan's seaman could have come back with low motility or low mobility or and if that were the case insurance would have covered no okay at the time so this was also 2017 which there's so much that was also the first year that women and minorities were required to be in phase three clinical trials. That's my fun fact. before then they were not required to be in clinical trials. Sorry. can you explain what that means to like our general audience?

Yeah. " Yeah. Didn't we start including women in medical testing a little bit before that? Right. It was like Yes.

This was the first time it was like required for women and minorities in phase three like which is more Yes. which is like the one where it's like is it going to work? Yeah. Awesome. So you're telling me this happened in 2017.

Okay. We can off the microphone now and just call it a day. Yeah. I mean thank you. Thank you so much for Yep.

All right. It was great talking to you now. so unexplained infertility, any infertility at that time in Illinois, insurance cut off. Like you're done because it's not necessary. It's not medically necessary for me to have a child.

So I look at this and the fact that it was like prepackaged and just handed to me and it was yellow. When I tell you I could smell, I mean like this is seared into my memory. and he hands it to me and I open it up to see like financial information of how to afford fertility treatment and I was like you just told me you do not know what is wrong with me. You are handing me a packet to pay for a solution but you don't know the problem. None of this makes sense.

Like none of it. It like almost snapped me out of this like I'm going to get a baby here today and like you know I'm I go in there they serve you cucumber water it smells like lavender there's babies all over the wall they warm the stirrups they like all of these things and then I'm like oh this is money and if I want to be clear if they said this is wrong and here's a treatment that's a whole different story. but so we were in. So we leave. I'm just like I'm I'm angry and quiet, which I am rarely quiet, so my husband would actually know something was wrong.

So we're driving home from Chicago and we live 2 hours from Chicago. " And at this point, like our marriage was on the rocks. We were newly married, but infertility is one of the leading causes of divorce for a reason. Like, and I'm a little bit tip Ae, so it got really unfun trying to conceive for a year and failing with me as a partner real quick. Cuz I was like, I don't have time for romance.

Let's go. I want this baby. to be fair, I've apologized to him since then, but we're in part of this with you. So, we'll get to that, but go ahead. That's why I'm smiling because I'm like, I know the end result.

Okay, go ahead. I know. Yes. So, we're in we're in the truck on the way home and he's trying he's so takes a special man. He was like, you know, hey, they have options we can try.

And I go, but they don't know what's wrong. So, he recommended three months of IUI and then three months of IVF. And so, in my head, I'm just thinking, IUI? Why do we have to do IUI? So, so IUI is when they would take his sperm, they centerfuge it down into a pellet, just all the live ones essentially make it.

It's like a filter. and instead of us having sex and it going there, they put it into my uterus. Okay. Oh, did you need a 3D printed model? Cuz I have one.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Do you have He's an engineer. It won't be this ferm. That's not the right size.

Okay. Okay. But so it goes into the uterus instead of like natural intercourse, it would be into the vagina. Okay. Okay.

So it's all the way there. It's all the way inside your uterus. So they take a catheter and I don't know if you can see there's a tiny hole for those of you listening. Okay. That's your cervix.

So they go through your cervix, put the sperm into the uterus. And I was like, why do they think that would help? And essentially the answer is I don't know. We'll put more sperm closer and hope one of them gets there. So this whole way home I'm I'm upset, angry, but I'm thinking anyway that set off the chain of despite reactions where all of a sudden I was just so pissed off that this is how things were being done that the next week I was headed to Korea, Australia and Italy to give talks about [clears throat] cancer research.

Okay. I downloaded every paper I could find on Google Scholar about infertility, idiopathic infertility, which is unexplained infertility. IUI, I learned there was something called ICI. And on these long plane rides, I read every possible thing I could and like tried to figure it out myself. And I'm standing on this stage in Korea.

There's a picture of me where I am. I wish the world knew that. Like I'm I'm touted as this expert biologist who was just told her biology didn't work. And the shell of the woman that was speaking on that stage like it was like I look I look at that and I'm like I was so broken. And already being a woman in science if they if the audience had known it would have been like you know what I mean?

Like it was a Yeah. " And I was like, "Nope. I've done all this research. " And so your cervix is here. If you put the sperm at the opening of the cervix, so like one inch lower than what they were going to do, and you don't have to process the sperm, you don't have to wash it.

So if you put it one inch lower, there were papers showing two different papers that show it had the same live birth rate, meaning you hold a baby at the end of the day. Okay. You might get pregnant more with IUI, but you miscarry more. Got it. Okay.

Live baby in your arms, which is what we all want at the end of the day. Same exact success rate. And I went, "What the hell? How did it take me having to go through sadly it wasn't that much research into women's health because there isn't that much but why did I have to go into Google Scholar to find out that there was an option called ICI interervical insemination and now you're going to tell me it has the same success rate why the hell did no one offer this to me not offer that would you do that exactly so I was like why did no one offer me they were offering it to people who like intercourse was painful or like there are very legitimate reasons, but like the average person walking in. No, because you don't need to process the sperm and if you do it right with the right materials at home, they wouldn't need it.

You wouldn't have to pay them. Okay. So, it all comes down to money. Yes. Got it.

So, I was like, well, good thing I work in a cancer research lab. I ordered lab supplies at this point. It's important my hus that you know my husband is a mechanical engineer. and so turns out we didn't know what each other really did but now okay I was like I don't know he engineers I don't know what that means. And he was like bio the fact that he could say bioinformatics was like good job.

and so he's a mechanical engineer and I was like, "No, we just need to get sperm closer to the egg. " but I ordered lab supplies and I was like, "Look, no one's going to offer this. " So, ordered lab supplies. " I'm like, "It has to be sterile. " And there was literally nothing on the market that existed that was sterile and that would get sperm closer to the egg, that was safe for women, safe for sperm, which again, mind-blowing.

Like because when we're talking like a generic 1militer syringe, even if it's sterile, all of that plastic kills sperm. Like there's so many things that kill sperm. Lubricants kill sperm. All lubricants. So like those syringes are lubricated.

So wow. Okay. all of the things that like and so it seems so simple and so crazy that we now have three utility patents for sterile at home insemination kits because no one gave a [ __ ] I had to point out that they were sterile. It was Yeah. But so we tried it ourselves.

I was like hold my beer. Ordered lab supplies. Husband goes in the other room. He g brings back a jar which is I give a little pep talk to. I'm like, "We're [clears throat] really sick of infertility.

" Because that's how unhinged we are at this point that I am creating home medical device. Okay. Okay. But you do you actually managed to find, by the way, the materials to make the materials I needed. I ordered them from my cancer research lab.

Yes. Okay. Okay. and [clears throat] so I we try it the first month. It doesn't work.

" And again, I don't know, I must have gave him a bourbon or something. He agreed to it. but it was the second month in December of 2017, that it worked. " And he's like, "I'm going to run off the road. " And my daughter Lois just turned seven.

Oh my god. First of all, that's so amazingly awesome. But it is literally you just there are so many questions now. But first of all, you basically found the method, created the method because it did not exist before. So, by the way, this is like one of the common themes when I interview people in war because it's not all people in health.

It's sometimes authors. It's sometimes people running for office. It's sometimes, you know, reporters. But a lot of times women especially because there is so little information about us and because, you know, we're like so mystical. Yes.

Once figured these things out. But a lot of times we end up and I'm not excluding men from this. I don't talk to a lot of men about this, but it seems that women see a problem and so they go in to fix it. It's not like you were problem solvers. Yeah, you weren't five like when I grow up I want to solve infertility.

Like you this is you weren't I always say I this is never what I wanted to do now. Like who does that? Like well you know what it's a Tuesday at 3. I'm a little bored. I think I'll just invent a medical device and go tell the world that, you know, my husband and I had sex a lot and it never worked.

Exactly. So that's that's your goal. Obviously that's not what I set out to do. But then when it works, holy [ __ ] So it worked and it worked, but originally it was just for you. Obviously it was just for me and it was a hilarious dinner party joke.

I think my husband hated it. " No one ever said yes, but I continued anyway. So, I just and I was like, "Hear me out. Guess what? " because I go, it's so crazy that no one knows this, but by the way, I didn't tell start telling my dinner party joke until I'm holding my healthy daughter in my arms because also when you've gone through infertility, then it worked.

I took the day off work when I found out I was pregnant cuz you feel so fragile. I'm like, I don't know how to be pregnant. Do can I sit? Like I mean, it's like instant anxiety then. Yeah.

But then now you got to make it through. How am I going to make it through? Because I already know I was bad at getting this part. So like now what, you know? but so I told the story and then I'm holding a healthy 4mon-old and I threw up and my son Zach is six.

So, we didn't need help for him and it was once. We call him Michael Phelps. He just swam right up there. I was still breast two kids. You had to use the kit once.

I only used the kit. Yep. For So, we called them lowest makers at first. Yes. Okay.

Lowest makers. I like that. Wait, but still the lowest maker is still just in your house at this point. Just in my house. Now, I am the I am everything.

I was so jealous of the people that like my husband looks at me and I get pregnant. I'm like literally I was breastfeeding. I hadn't had my period yet. I had sex one time. " I'm like, "I don't know.

" I'm like, "I don't know. " Like so I was basically an elephant. I was pregnant for two years. and so my kids are 380 days apart. Wow.

and Zach was a Zach is my son. he was eight weeks early. But we're all here and safe and healthy now. But 6 months after that is when COVID hit. So at this point, I'm out of the cancer research lab.

I'm working in corporate because they'll actually pay you us instead of academia at this. Yeah. So I was like, I have kids to raise. I'm going to get a big girl job. So, I I work in corporate and I'm climbing the corporate ladder and I have these two babies that are on me at home.

and I got to the point when they were like one and two that I was like, I am working so damn hard for someone else's dream and I'm burned out and I just want to bring joy into the world. " Like he's like, "I think you're going to get arrested. " so I talked him into it. " And I was like, "That was the mistake. " Yeah.

And he knows now. " and so I made 200 proof of concept kits. I ordered supplies. I put up a website at this time. I'm also going through a lot of therapy about all the all the traumatic events that have led from infertility to two babies.

And so I made 200 kits. I put it up on the internet. I have no idea what I'm doing. " so the first 200 kits sold out in 90 days and there's 34 babies from those initial kits, which is cra So okay, so it's 200 kits, there's 34 babies, but hold on. Were you calling it Lois Maker at the time?

No. So, I did come up with the name Fertile. because I'm like, what am I going to call, you know? I'm not like a cutesy. That's just not my vibe.

and so I was trying to think and I was like, okay, what if we spell fertile but we use my PhD? So, like I proved I was fertile but using my PhD. " Yes. So, the DNA lo on our logo is because that's what I was doing with bioinformatics. But also, you make new DNA with Fertile.

Okay. All right. I love First of all, I love it. And I love that like did you by any chance like send a picture or just you know a kit to that doctor? Oh, the most delicious spite that has ever existed was the day [snorts] we got FDA clearance which we crowdfunded for and that was a whole thing.

and I was the day that we got FDA clearance comes out in the news and that fertility clinic was running Google ads against the word fertile and I loved it. They felt so threatened that they started paying money to run ads against a word I had made up. Wow. from leaving their office. That is it was I genuinely was full of so much spiteful joy.

I'm sure you were and I'm sure you still are because now we're fertile like the first 200 kits got you 34 babies. Got us 34 babies. The second How much is the kit by the way? How much was the kit? $199.

So as opposed to the thousands of dollars that you Yeah, it was $10,000. Yeah, $10,000 was for three months of IUI. That was the loan that the doctor handed me. So, I needed$10,000 in cash to pay for three months of IUI. So, which at the time was a quarter of my salary?

You're going to tell me is what So, you now have a kit for $150. $199. Now, it's $199, but it wasund Well, still Oh, sorry. It was Yeah, the very first pro proof of concept kits under $200. And how often can you use that kit?

So, it is sterile. So, it's single use only, but you can use it up to six months. Like you can you can use a fertile kit once every six month. Got it. Okay.

So, yeah, this is like that's the fertile package. So, it comes with three syringes and three jars. So, you're going to use it on your three most fertile nights. Got it. So, IUI has like a 20% success rate.

They do that one time in a clinical setting. This has the same success rate. We're doing it three nights to cover your entire 24 hours when the egg is actually viable. which they don't know exactly when your egg I say when the egg drops like a mic drop, but from then on you have 24 hours. And so we want to put as much sperm as we can in that 24-hour window.

So you're doing it three times instead of once in the clinic. and you can do it for up to six months. So yeah, but for $200. Hey everyone, I've got some exciting news. I'm partnering with Louie.

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com. And use code roar15. That's r o ar a r15 for a special discount at checkout. Am I going to make it? Gosh.

Okay. And tell me now like how many fertile kits have sold? well yeah we had the first 200. then well there was a long pause between you. Okay.

you can go into it. It's okay. I was like do you want Well, the second fertile baby was a stranger on the internet and our family now vacations with them. Oh, stop. How much younger than Lois is that baby?

Two. Three years. Harper just turn Harper just turned three. She has a third. This woman has a third baby.

That's that's her. No, Harper, her daughter, is okay. Got it. Now, today. Got it.

they live in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and we live in Dixon, Illinois. It's like 3-hour drive. So, they drove with their newborn to our house, and we had dinner. That changed my entire life. I was like holding this baby and they were thanking me and I'm like I still get I have chills and I could almost I have I have goosebumps.

That feeling of joy. I was like I'm going to chase this feeling the rest of my life. Like if this like I don't know if this is what heroin feels like. I that's I don't know. Like the amount of like just gratitude that this that I had for this couple to like let me like trust me in such an intimate process to like see if it would work and when it did and Tessa and Kevin and Harper and Ellis is their second like yeah we are we've became friends it's it's beautiful and I'm like weirdly attached to so many of our fertile babies that like I crochet and my hands are going to go numb by Christmas because I want to make them all baby blankets.

But gosh, we when we first sold out of those 200 kits we were registered as a class one medical device, which is like a band-aid. Okay. Because syringe, you know, like it's low risk. The FDA was like, "Hey, we think you're on to something. We love what you're doing, but you need to get FDA clearance.

I don't know what FDA clearance is. So there's three classes of medical devices. So band-aid level, then apparently insemination kit is right here at number two. It's also things like diabetes shots, insulin shots, anything that's kind of like going in you but not staying in you. Okay.

And then level three is like, do you need a new hip or like we're putting in a shunt or something like Okay, so we're at level two, little bit of risk because it didn't exist. So they basically decided that they were going to make a new product category for medical devices. Prior to this though, the test ones you're selling without any I'm selling them registered with the FDA as like a band-aid, like a class one device. Okay. But the FDA is telling you have to go FDA was like, "This is great.

We love innovation, but you need to quit selling unless you get FDA clearance, but we don't know what we're going to call you yet. " because even if you sell anyone who sells a band-aid in the US, you have to register like okay. And so I did. " Which I'm like, "Sure, okay. " I had the ignorance that I had, blind ignorance, is the only reason we're here today.

I'm like, "Sure, gonna go do a couple tests. I'm a scientist. " I soon came to find out estimated costs were 3 to 5 million to get FDA clearance. I did not have that laying around. so I was like, is this the end of, you know, I don't want to get in [clears throat] trouble.

Well, I don't. So, you know, I So, I was But it already makes you wonder how many people are having innovations that can't like afford this. So, we're stopping innovation basically. And Exactly. Well, cuz that's where I was at the point where when the reason I talked Ryan into it is because I go, why the hell does it take a PhD to go into the research to figure out that there's something else that people already knew about and were trying and a mechanical engineer to be able to like help me actually come up with the device and CAD drawings and production and all of that?

Why does it take us to like how many people are lucky enough to know how to go into Google Scholar and you know have been trained and written articles in nature like not many how many people are also married to mechanical engineer not many but like it's simple and the world needs to know and so how many people are also coming up with devices that could help people and again money So like our three utility patents that we got, I had to list out my CV of like those talks that I mentioned that I was going to. Here's where I am a trusted biology expert giving talks internationally to tell them that sterile sterilizing a device before you put it inside your vagina is different than a dildo shaped. I mean like it was insane. That's how we got the patents is I then had to prove to the patent office that not having bacteria shoved into your vagina was an important factor. So like no other kit is sterile and can be sterilized.

We are the only ones for the next 19. And when you said no other kit so now there are other kits. There are illegal kits that are being sold. okay. But they don't have FDA clearance.

They don't have FDA clearance even though they're on the shelf in Target. They are they are they are not FDA cleared. They are not sterile. They're actually I don't know how much you want me to go into the vaginal microbiome, but it's actually hurting people's fertility. but anyway, so we when I found out we needed FDA clearance, I then was like, don't have it laying around.

I've helped to these 34 families. I don't know. My dad actually forwarded me. He goes, check out this. There's crowdfunding equity.

You can actually like sell parts of your company to try to get funding. And I quit my job. then took out $10,000 loan, which was the minimum on this website that you had to get to get your money back. And I was like, I'm going to go tell everyone that our business didn't work, but no one's probably going to do anything. So, here's my 10.

So, I saved up. Here's $10,000, which I wouldn't pay the doctor, but I'm willing to just quit my job and put in to this like crowdfunding website. " And I thought they would all point and laugh. And they all also got naked. " and $433 people raised $630,000 in five months.

Wow. Wow. Wow. When I tell you one in five people are struggling in silence, one in five people are struggling or have struggled or are going to struggle. And it was not just me.

And holy [ __ ] all of these people are like still I call them our fertile family. so they own 4% of my company. I together we paid it wasn't 3 to5 million. We did it with $630,000. got all the clearance testing.

now have three utility patents. So, we got FDA cleared at the end of 23. We went on the market. we were just on the market when I met you last year in 24. so we've been on the market now for about 18 months and there are we are approaching our 500th fertile baby.

Oh my gosh. Are you kidding me? 500th baby. 500 babies. I don't know how I'm going to hold them all.

I want to send them all Christmas presents. I'm obsessed with them. I My inbox is like positive pregnancy tests and like ultrasounds and like hearing so many different family stories and like I can't describe it to you. It is I can't even imagine what that must feel like and that [clears throat] that to have that go from like this absolute negative place for you where you're being told this pardon me where you're being told this information feeling so vulnerable so furious also but like but also like here's your dreams you've been work you've been working hard at trying to become a mom it's not working instead of I mean so many people at that point deflate like so many people are told this information and are like I don't have options or they take out loans and they and to be to be fair those people you know like I happen to be the right or wrong depending on person but like that was my wheelhouse if I you know but if it wasn't like my husband my husband's a mechanical engineer and he's like I don't know they said unexplained infertility. And here's the thing, because we all, I think, go in with this blanket white coat trust that this doctor is going to tell us, which a lot of them do, but we all, it's gotten so much better, but we have all need to advocate and understand and ask questions.

And so they would deflate, but it's not cuz they didn't want to fight, you know, like my husband was just like, "This sucks. This is what we have to do. It I just Right. " Yeah. You're given two options.

And so then people are like freezing their eggs at 25, which now is way more common. I don't know if I would have done it, but that's basically IVF. You're just pumping your body full of hormones and you're harvesting, which means surgery, the eggs out of your body. And like it's not just, oh, going to go freeze my eggs today. Like a sperm sample, you can just shoot it into a cup, you know?

there's there's just we're told so little and we're given so few options. And so yeah, a lot of people go into debt. I mean, have hundreds of thousands. IVF can be $50,000 per month, which is crazy. And that's the thing.

So many people are limited because people all that. Yeah. And like and that would have been us too, you know, like that word unexplained really changed my life. Well, and I mean, you're you're talking about from $50,000 to like to 200 or maybe you get maybe you get it for three months, 600. I mean, a year's worth is 2400.

Like, it's a completely different financial reality for so many people. Yeah. And so, my goal is right now you before fertile, you can be like me. You're having sex for a year. It's not working.

You're waiting. I remember I went to the OB 8 months and they were like you have to be fa you have to fail for four more months before you can get help those four months. And so [clears throat] there's the OB. They refer you to the fertility specialist after a year. If you're over 35, you can go at 6 months.

If you're over 40, you can go at 3 months. but at 32, it felt like at 8 months I'm like that's my last egg. It wasn't. it turn but you know like that's how you feel and I'm broken and I'm ruining my marriage and then the next option is we're handed a loan application and there's nothing in between like what and so our goal with fertile is there is a huge gap in care between what you can do to conceive at home and what you can do to conceive in a fertility clinic and fertile bridges the gap between that. So it is like bringing the fertility clinic into your bedroom.

A little more private, just a smidge. It's discreetly delivered. but you're doing it at home by yourself. It's as easy to use as a tampon. We say collect, insert, conceive.

we get sperm into the cervical mucus where it survives and filters and just gets most of your swimmers halfway through the race and increases your odds. It's unbelievable. And I and for so many reasons and there are so many ways I want to go, but I'm trying to keep myself like on top of this as a story, but I feel like I just have to say one more time that this is so inexpensive and that you as a human being and scientist with a family who've created something could have been like, "This is $600 a pop. " When people It's like weddings, right? You can buy flowers.

Yeah. Like if you book a venue for like a birthday party, it's $5, but if it's a wedding, it's 50,000. Exactly. But and it's like babies, you know, people get desperate. It's an emotional need to have a baby.

When you want a baby and you can't have one, there is there is no there are a lot of feelings. And I feel like you could easily be thinking, hey, you know what? I put a lot of time and energy into this. I've got a family to raise and nobody would blame you if you doubled the price in that or you tripled the price of it. Nobody would.

And it still wouldn't. And it's so affordable. It's less than a prom dress. Yeah. Well, my prom dress is costing now.

It's crazy. I'll know in a few years when There you go. But I I grew up on a farm in a town of 2,000 people in Hingley, Illinois. there isn't reproductive endocrinologists where I live. Like I'm very country.

I moved to the big city now. We have a stoplight in a Walmart and 15,000 people in Dixon. but so many people don't have the ability to take off a day of work. Like we took off a day of work just to go there to like do the testing for the doctor to piss me off to start this. Like you have to take work off.

you like all of these things that like people just don't have affordable access and it's so simple and like it's so common sense for people to try it and my goal was always like affordable and accessible fertility science delivered to your door and that's will continue to be my goal like there's there's nothing I want I want this to be $200 for some people is a lot but it's 50,000. So, I want it to be within reach for as many people as possible. Quick pause to thank all of you for listening. You may have noticed that Roar sounds a little more polished this season. That's thanks to my producer who's responsible for making this third season sound as good as it does.

com/roar podcast. Your support truly makes all of this possible. And now let's get back to the show. It might tell me about, you know, you talked briefly about there are other options available that are not FDA approved, but they're also not sterile. They cannot be sterile.

So they are full of bacteria as you are putting them inside your body. Just sorry I was gonna say what do you want women to know about their choices and what makes fertile different from other insemination options and are there even these other models that have come out that are not there are three of us that are FDA cleared now but we're the only sterilized one. Okay. So there are other insemination models. Yes.

So there's like there's illegal ones and then there's three of us that have clearance to sell a medical device in the US, but we are the only ones that are sterilized and we're longer and there's lots of reasons. But yeah, and the sterilization part, as you discovered, was like a really big part of this. Yes. Can I nerd out for a minute on it? Please, please do.

Do you want visuals? Yes. Okay. So, you know how you have a gut micro Oh, sorry. I don't want to give it away yet.

so you know how you have a gut microbiome and so people will take like probiotics. You want like a healthy gut microbiome. You have a microbiome of everything. Your armpits, your belly button, [clears throat] your vagina. Okay?

You have bacteria living all over inside of you. 10 bacteria for every one cell. That's you. So inside your vagina, you are born with a microbiome. So, let's say this is your beautiful vagina, okay?

And so, you're born with a microbiome that hasn't had things inserted into it, right? Okay. and so as we age, women are one delaying conception. Usually like our first child for most women now is about the age of 30. Okay.

and then we are having multiple partners before we decide to have children and we are using tampons and menstrual cups and we are putting devices into there. And so your microbiome changes with every partner and device and object. And so this isn't an infection. This is just different bacteria. So, like if you had a one night stand, you regret it might still be living in your vagina.

Great to know. Not speaking from personal experience. And so, like you're saying, it's not infection. It's just it's not an infection. It's just different.

It changes. Okay. Yes. And so, you're inside there, you have a pH. If you alter the pH of your vaginal microbiome, you are going to kill sperm.

So the only way So all of this if this is a pH friendly environment, now we have made it where if it touches any of the bacteria in there, you are going to kill the sperm. Okay? So when sperm naturally only 1% where's my other only 1% would ever reach the cervix that's you're having sex right just 1% would normally get there so that's just normal sex anybody baby doesn't want to have a baby accidentally had a baby accidentally had a baby 1% of all the sperm is going to actually get you got to be you got to look around at people and be like those are some active 1% because there's a lot of people out there. There's a lot of people out there. Yeah, we do.

Just takes one. Very active. That 1% of them. Each of us were the fastest sperm. We can all say that.

Yes. Yes. Good to know. I was the fastest. Yes.

And so instead of 1% Okay. So now if this whole environment, if everything it touches is killing sperm, that's even less now. So instead of 1%, they're dying before they can even swim to get to the cervix. So, you might not have any sperm actually reaching the cervix, but it's it's nothing you've done. It's not your fault.

This isn't a shame session. This isn't But you if you use tampons, if you use menstrual cups, like those all change that environment in the vagina and are killing the sperm. So, fertile is going to it delivers it at the cervix. So, instead of 1%, we're getting 95%. And your cervical mucus is safe for sperm.

It's the best lubricant, the only lubricant you should use. If it reaches the cervical mucus, it easily swims into the uterus. So, we are putting a lot more sperm right at the cervical mucus to give them the entrance. So, you go from 1% to 95% over your three most fertile nights. Your odds just went up astronomically.

Now talk to me about show me the difference if we've got a nonsterile device. Oh, there that would have been better. Okay, there's our syringe. Yeah. Okay, so here's our sterile device and that's how that's working.

They're putting it into sterile, you've now managed to evade if you're not. So they're not sterile and they're all shorter. So they're not reaching the cervix. So you're basically mimicking sex with those. It's also sex isn't sterile.

Neither are these. you're adding to the vaginal microbiome. You're changing it. You're making it different and you're just spraying it into the vaginal microbiome, which is already going to kill the sperm anyway. So, with fertile, we're going far enough up to reach the cervix, but we're not going into it.

Doesn't hurt. Should never be painful. But at your cervix is cervical mucus. And so, the cervical mucus essentially once the sperm hit it, they can start swimming. If you're down here, there is cervical mucus and you're hitting all of this bacteria filled area and it's just killing the sperm.

So, if you're having some success with one of these other kinds of kits that aren't sterile, it's basically just the same as you had sex and you got lucky. Exact. Yeah. I mean, so like it's it's the exact same which a lot of couples need. And so if you, you know, LGBTQ, single mothers by choice, if that's, you know, there are lots of ways to build a family and so they're good for that.

They're good for mimicking sex. Got it. Okay. Okay. Got it.

We like our predicate device was the IUI catheter that the doctors use. So we are the ones that are like we're not mimicking sex. We are mimicking the first line of fertility treatment they do in the clinic, but we're doing it at home. Got it. Okay, that's actually very that is a very good explanation.

And I love how you point out if that's what you're trying to do, mimic sex because for whatever reasons you just mentioned, that's great. However, even if you I mean, I would imagine if you're trying to get pregnant, go for the gold if you're I'm biased. I'll say as a scientist I'm biased that you know I have a kid from two kids from but like there is yeah we are for people who are struggling to conceive no matter what your family looks like which is different than someone trying to get sperm into their body just for the first time and just giving it. Okay. Okay.

All right. Thank you for explaining that. I like this a lot. And then I have a like what's next for fertile because I feel like you're just on a roll. And also did you know this much about the cervix before you started?

I love that question. I knew nothing. I was gonna say because I'm like got one I tell in like all the material I think it's actually in like the first email once you buy the kit I send you like detailed instructions. I did not know how to track my cycle. I didn't know when my 24-hour ovulation window was since I'm biology and computer science.

I tried every I tried a lot of apps. I'll say they're different now, but they are all based on a 28 day cycle, and only 13% of women have a 28 day cycle. So, they're not predicting your fertile window accurately. and I tell them upfront, I took every single biology class you can take, all of them. Like, I joke, I went to college for 30 years.

I graduated 34th grade. I knew zero of this. Nothing. And I say that so that because people are like, "Oh my god, it's my own body. " And I'm like, "No, you are not stupid.

" Trust me, I took every class and I knew nothing. Zero. Nada. So the answer is no. I've learned so much.

But also, I'm so grateful to our fertile families because they share so much about different scenarios and different ways that they're building their family or struggles they're facing. and how and why Fertile has helped them in ways that I haven't gotten to experience. And it's so moving and I just am so grateful that they trust me in this process, you know, and trust us to help what and that's by the way that's like a another really big part of it. Like infertility, conception, insemination, like these are not words that people are talking about, you know, over coffee at Starbucks loudly, right? Unless you're me.

Yeah. Why do you think it's so important women continue the conversation about things that feel so intimate? I think for me I felt so much shame. I can now call it that. But it was also grief because I was grieving what wasn't there.

like I didn't always know if I wanted to be a mom, but when I decided I wanted to be a mom, I set a goal and I do it. but then I'm looking at my husband and I'm like, what if I can't give you children? What does our life look like? My entire future had a boy and a girl in it for some reason. That's what I always wanted and luckily I got it.

I would have taken anything. But we had three dogs. But you like we what would my future look like? What would the rest like if I do I divorce him so that he can go be a father? Cuz he's going to be a great dad and I want him to be a great dad and is that what happiness would be?

Is that like love if I go let him? All of these questions. And like you feel like as a woman you're broken and it's so hard to talk about because it's it's so intimate that literally being like the thing that makes me a woman biologically I was made to make other humans and I cannot do that. So what am I and what's wrong and it's not easy to talk about. It's taken, full disclosure, it's taken me, you know, a lot of therapy to even be able to like share my story without just weeping.

because it's so difficult and it's so hard. And so I praise any women who like speak up and talk about it because what I found is as soon as you share and when I say one in five, like if I talk somewhere and I tell people like look at the five closest people to you, one in five will be struggling in silence. There are lines of people when I get off stage that are coming to hug me. How did you know? and I haven't told anyone and we're going through surrogacy.

I did four rounds of IVF. Oh my god, I did this. And these people, I'm watching them as they are going, "Me too. " Like my friends reached out when we were crowdfunding. I didn't know they were going through infertility.

Like, and do people even know? Like a lot of times I feel like I hear people saying, "We've been trying. you know, we've been trying. Well, we've been trying. You know, they're we're just trying.

You know, it's been they've been trying and maybe they're trying. Maybe it's even the second one. So, like sometimes you have one secondary infertility and I feel like that one will really sneak up on you because you're like, well, I already had a baby so it can't be I did this once. What's that? Yeah.

Right. Like my body should know, right? Like this is what happens. and so they experience it. They don't even necessarily use the word infertile or even recognize it at first.

Yeah. So, we always say trying to like I'm like use the word and you're if you're in the trying to conceive world, TTC, there's all these acronyms with fertility that make I don't know why. but I you aren't actually diagnosed until you go to the fertility clinic. So, we're in this gray area. I mean that's like who we're trying to help is those people who are like, "Okay, it's been 6 months.

" Like, and then you hit eight months and you're like, "What? " You know, I don't think I could have sex any more times a day. Like, you know, we all kind of know the basic birds and bees of how it how it should happen. And so you and the more you talk about it or this was my experience, the more I talked about it, the more people would ask me. And then if I am at, you know, I'm at work in the cancer clinic and I just found out I got my period, which means I failed another cycle.

So I go in the bathroom. I have mascara and tampons. I was like preparing again. I'm not pregnant. I have to cry.

I go I go in the bathroom, I cry. I failed again. Then I have to put my makeup back on, go back out there, do my job. And like if people were asking me about it, I couldn't keep up that facade. Yeah.

It just makes you retreat because I don't want anyone to ask me about it because I just went cried in the bathroom, got my [ __ ] together. I can come out here again. But if I tell you and now you know and you're asking me, "Oh my god, did you is it cycle day one? " I can't handle that like so then you don't tell people. So you it makes it's just a shame spiral where you're like when are you going to have kids?

And then you're just like it got to the point where I was like do you really want to know? like you know which to be fair I asked those questions because you don't know what you don't know and so like it's the whole process I have learned so much about so much I'm sure you have I but one of the things you just mentioned I wanted to come back to you said you know people maybe don't know they're in that gray area before they've gone to a fertility clinic so let me ask you a question to get fertile do You need to have a referral to a fertility clinic. You need to have $199. That's it. You don't need a prescription.

com phr. You have to spell it like the weirdo I am. com. and I'll share that by the way in the show notes, but go ahead. you don't need anything.

No. anyone. We are We are FDA cleared for anyone who is trying to conceive or has chosen not to get pregnant through intercourse. Any single easy to get as a multivitamin. com and you order it and I ship it to you and it's discreetly shipped.

It's in it almost looks like a shoe box. It's like covered in white plastic. I purposely like put a space in the name on the return label. So, it's a little bit it comes through like on your credit card even as like Fertile Labs instead of so like I'm trying to make this as discreet and private as possible. The mailman doesn't know that you'll be inseminating.

cuz I learned quickly. I love my logo, but you know, people were like my [clears throat] first 200 kits, they were like, can we package that up a little different? So yeah, it's greatly delivered. and that's all. Yeah.

Well, I think you're doing everything. It's so funny because you're like, I want to knit. Like you want you're making you're making presents. You're thinking about how best you're really you're thinking about how best to serve the people who need fertile, right? Like wheaging, affordable prices, hand knitted blankets, emails.

I give customers my cell phone. " Like, well, what about So, but you're here in the world of like reproductive health science. What would you change systemically if you could change one thing? how our system approaches women's reproductive health. Oh god, that's a one.

We should maybe look at it. Think about fertility science for the past 200 years. How long have women been doctors? Maybe 1960s more women were getting doctors before then. probably not 50/50 until I don't know '9s, 2000s maybe.

so what fertility science was up until then was a bunch of old white dudes looking at each other's sperm. So we should, you know, maybe just look into women's health. There needs to be more research and more funding. Also, the way we approach it clinically, and I'm not a clinician, I have a lot of respect for clinicians. my goal is eventually that you know when you go to the OB and when I went to the OB at 8 months and they were like you have to fail four more times you know that people will know oh you should try fertile first bridge that gap it might not work for everyone but it'll work for some and then if that doesn't work then you go to the fertility clinic.

But it's so much common sense is missing from women's healthc care like just from like bedside manner of like how we're treated and the gaslighting and then not being heard. we need a lot more like compassion and empathy and advocacy. I think I think you're right. But I'm glad to know that like, you know, in terms of you're younger than I am, but like in terms of new generations or going forward or for my daughter, like there's so many more women involved in the space and hopefully I'm not every woman's a good woman. We had a little conversation privately, but like hopefully the women involved in this space are going into it with that same kind of in that same headsp space where it's like, oh, the women who go who the women found I this is why I love fem.

Yeah. So badass because my story is not unique when you get to know other fem [ __ ] happened, you know, and then they're like, "Yep, so I just did something about like and it's it's this growing industry of just problem solvers and people who like are compassionate and smart [clears throat] and driven. And I'm I love being in the fem community for that reason because just the energy and awareness and passion is I mean you're not going to find that at my husband's mechanical engineering job. I'll tell you that. Well, because they talk about fem as like this growing like in the financial world, right there, you know, because obviously fem needs funding.

So for anybody who doesn't know, feech is like an umbrella term for really all women's health. It started off as like the umbrella term for like kind of digital like tech, health tech, but now it's really expanded to anything that has to do with women's health. And so it's a growing field in terms of you know finances and investment, but really it's like yes, we need the finances and yes, we need the investment and and rightfully so, right? These are inventions that can help a lot of people, but the women involved in it, they're they're solving problems whether they're getting the resources or the finances or not, right? I you know, you know what I mean?

You can tell me I need five million, but we'll get FDA clearance for less than a million. You know, we're figuring it out and it's and it's great to know that there are so many people in that space doing good things. What is for you? You've been through this gigantic journey from diagnosis to invention to FDA approval to, you know, knitting booties. What's the one message you want women listening to take away from your story?

Oh, you are the expert of your body. You need to trust that you know your body best. And so if you are struggling to conceive or you are you know experiencing panic attacks or you are having you know whatever it is that is happening if you know something is wrong speak up find your v voice because like no pain is normal. No, you know, there's so much that isn't normal that we as women deal with because what else are you going to do? So, I hope people realize that like maybe the thing that is painful or causing you so much shame or makes you know, in my case, me go cry in the bathroom and then carry mascara with me to like get back to work like that.

You are not alone and it's way more common than you think. And if you find your voice and you can find your voice, you can find support in other women that will help you and you don't have to do it by yourself. Jen, thank you so much for coming on here today. I am so appreciative. I feel like a lot of people are going to get a lot of value out of this and I'm going to have all the links to where you can buy Fertile, to where you can learn more, to where you can see your time award picture all in the show notes.

So, thank you so much. Thank you for the opportunity. It is amazing to be here and get to roar. So, thank you. That was Jennifer Hingy, founder of Fertile.

Proof that when women create from frustration, we get innovation that actually serves us. And speaking of women using their voices to create change, next week's guest takes that idea to a whole new level. Renee Neman went from writing hilarious posts as fake adult mom to creating resist like a mother, reminding parents that raising good humans is part of the resistance. Because as she's realized and as so many of us are feeling, parenting isn't just personal anymore, it's political. You don't want to miss this one.