Jenny Lynn Walding on Why Breastfeeding Support Is Broken and How She's Fixing It
Breastfeeding shouldn’t be this hard—but for too many parents, it still is.
In this episode of ROAR, host Danielle Davies talks with Jenny Lynn Walding, certified lactation counselor and founder of MilkMaid, a femtech startup reimagining what real breastfeeding support looks like.
Jenny shares her raw experiences navigating new motherhood—the sleepless nights, the guilt, the pain—and the moment she realized: “This can’t be the way.” Instead of accepting a broken system, she’s building a smarter one, creating tools that offer clarity, community, and compassion when parents need them most.
🍼 In this conversation
• Why traditional breastfeeding advice fails modern parents
• The emotional toll of postpartum pressure
• How MilkMaid is bridging the gap between tech, care, and maternal health
• What it really takes to support parents in the early days
💡 This isn’t just about milk—it’s about equity, care, and the future of maternal health.
00:00 Introduction to Roar
00:23 Sexual Assault PSA
01:00 Breastfeeding Challenges and Innovations
01:20 Interview with Jenny Lynn Waling
02:47 Personal Breastfeeding Struggles
04:16 Navigating Tongue Tie Issues
11:57 The Birth of Milkmade
17:45 The Importance of Breastfeeding Support
21:26 Milkmade: A Smart Solution
34:08 The Mental Load of Breastfeeding
35:37 Challenges in Developing Breastfeeding Products
35:51 Perception and Identity as a Mom
38:39 Fem Tech and Women's Health
43:16 Innovation in Lactation
45:10 Systemic Barriers and Funding Issues
55:04 Workplace Support and Policy Changes
01:02:15 Call to Action and Final Thoughts
To Learn More
milkmade:
Tongue tie, also known as ankyloglossia, is a condition where the lingual frenulum, the thin band of tissue (that may contain muscle fibers) under the tongue, is abnormally short or thick. This restricts the movement of the tongue, making it difficult to perform certain functions such as breastfeeding.
Also discussed
IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultants):
Brittany Barreto Podcast:
Cindy Gallup:
Parental Leave Status in US compared to other OECD nations:
To get in touch with or follow Jenny Lynn Walding
Listen to ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture & Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. New conversations every Tuesday.
Full Transcript
This transcript was generated automatically and lightly cleaned up. It may contain small errors.
Hey, I'm Danielle Davies and you're listening to Roar, a show that amplifies the voices of women breaking barriers, leading change, and making real impact. Keep listening for bold ideas and stories that inspire you to find your voice and make some noise. Every 60 seconds, nine people in the United States are sexually assaulted. 7 million rapes each year. But the people behind the Fund to Prevent Sexual Assault believe sexual violence is preventable.
Your support helps fund programs that empower young people, train leaders, and create safer spaces for everyone. Prevention starts with action. org to learn more and donate today. Hi, this is Danielle Davies and you're listening to ROAR. Do you have children that you breastfed?
Whether you do or you don't, you may know that while breastfeeding is natural doesn't mean it's easy. And for so many new parents, the struggle to feed their babies comes with frustration, pain, and a lack of support. But what if innovation could change that? What if the challenges parents face could be met with real tangible solutions? On today's episode of Roar, I'm speaking with Jenny Lyn Walding, a certified lactation counselor and the founder of Milkmaidaid, a groundbreaking fem startup dedicated to empowering parents on their infant feeding journey.
Jenny's inspiration came from her own experience navigating tongue ties, mastitis, clogged ducts, and the overwhelming responsibility of nourishing a baby. Instead of accepting these struggles as inevitable, she set out to revolutionize the way we monitor and support breastfeeding. But bringing a feech product to market isn't easy. Jenny's been in the trenches, filing patents, seeking funding, and pushing through barriers that too often hold women's health innovations back. Today, we're talking about her journey, the future of breastfeeding tech, and the systemic challenges that make launching a product like Milkmaidaid harder than it should be.
If you've ever wondered how one person can turn their experience into advocacy and impact, this episode's for you. Let's dive in. Welcome, Jenny. Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Sorry for the long I need you to write my Christmas card or you know, I'm getting a lot of compliments on these intros, but I'm realizing they're like entirely too long. I'm like I'm losing I'm losing the abil I was becoming tongue tied. So, which is not the topic of conversation. So, let's just start at the beginning because I know you and I could talk all day about all kinds of things. your journey to founding milkade started with your own breastfeeding struggles.
What was the moment you knew you had to create a solution? Because honestly, so many people do have breastfeeding struggles, but not all of them decide, okay, I have to do something about this. So, crying. I was definitely crying over spilled milk and you know, just to kind of set the set the stage of this experience, I was in Australia. So, we had moved over to Australia.
We were living there and I was going through the whole the whole gamut of, you know, of a crash course of coming into motherhood, but I was doing it overseas. And so, you know, in terms of Australia versus America, I was in a really good seat. You know, from my perspective, I was going to have access to midwives and I was going to have access to you know, pelvic floor specialists, things, and we're talking, this is 2015, so this is light years from where, you know, the US sits at this stage. And so I just kept having these pushes from my midwife and from my l she was a lactation specialist of saying come on you just have to just keep offering the breast keep offering the breast and I'm like what it's a full-fledged buffet like what are you even talking about like it is it is wide open and so my daughter was not gaining weight she and so again Well, who's at fault here? Like, is it is it my fault?
Like, well, the baby's crying. You know, you constantly have to offer this, you know, offer the breast. And so, I literally hit a wall where I had not been sleeping. I have been offering the breast. I am battered.
Like, I'm bruised. I'm I'm engorged. I'm, you know, literally in I'm literally in this like teeth gritting pain. And I'm I'm look, she's crying, I'm crying. And it was one of these like there ha there has to be a better way.
And then it gets better because the better way that there was especially at this time was I got a hospital grade scale. So, you had to the process here is to see what type of input your baby's getting is strip the baby down to the diaper, weigh it. So, as you can imagine, they love this. feed from one side, weigh the baby, then feed from the other side, weigh the baby. And you're doing this at every single feed.
And you're you're monitoring it. You're writing all of this stuff down. and you're converting into grams and you're like well and then okay well then what happens when the baby wets itself or what's on the scale or and we were doing cloth diapers which that was you know I was going for it I was really I was doing motherhood like I am going to make this happen so then I had to step away and my husband took over well he didn't change the baby he didn't take off the clothes. So now like the all of this work is now completely it's irrelevant. I don't know did she gain weight?
Didn't she gain weight? Like oh no I don't know this is this is how we're monitoring. And so at the 7w week mark where she is now fully losing weight. She is she's now not she's she's fa failing to thrive. I am not surviving.
And we get we get rushed into a proper lactation consultant which so they're an IBCLC certified consultant and she looks at her. We do the feeding there. We do this whole weighted thing with in the eyes of this professional and she says, "Okay, this isn't working. " Well, ironically, she had already been checked right after birth for being tongue tied. But there's different there's different types of tongue tied.
There's lip tie. There's there's posterior, anterior. So, there's all these different things that can go on anatomically in a baby's mouth that some of them may grow out of it as they start using their mouth and things like that. And so we ended up having to go to a specialist that performs frenctomies and snipped the muscle underneath the tongue. And there's this there's no like pain medication.
There's a there's a laser option and then there's like the like the old school scissor option. And so we be and it was like there was a time issue there. So we just elected for the scissor option, the snip option. " It felt so different. " And you could hear you could hear like the swallowing.
you could hear you know there's this there's this muscle here and you can kind of you can see it moving as the baby I didn't I didn't know that I didn't know that I didn't know that you really should see the baby's tongue just when it's hungry and it just sticks it out and I never saw her tongue I never want why would it even occur to you that you need to see that like I and I have to Can you tell us a little bit about being tongue tied or what that because you said there's a lot of different ways that can happen and even I was going to say for people who don't have kids, but even for people who do have kids and even breastfed their kids, I you might not be aware of it and that's part of the problem. Absolutely. So the muscle, you know, there's a a piece and the term frenulum that can be you can use that for this up here, this gum line. There's a frenulum up here underneath your tongue. It's this top almost like top piece of muscle.
There's a frenulum in between the hood and a penis. There's a frenulum there. So when you talk about this tightness of this muscle, these are things that can impair breastfeeding because the baby is not forming a proper seal in their mouth. And what's interesting is it doesn't impact bottlefed babies because they're not they're not moving their mouth in the same way that a breastfed baby is moving their mouth. So I was I was bottlefed and when I was 16, I went to go have my wisdom teeth out and the surgeon or whatever who cuz my teeth were impacted so it had to be it had to be surgery.
" I am. And your this muscle that how taught it is going to start pulling back the front of your teeth. So, I too I was under but I too had this and then I ended up having a lisp the entire summer of trying to find a job. But why I'm highlighting this is there is, you know, studies out that are showing that it can be hereditary or there can be like a genetic disposition to where if your parents were tongue-tied, there's a possibility that you could be tongue-tied as well. " I just knew I had that done to keep my teeth straight.
It wasn't a function of food. It was aesthetics, frankly. Oh my gosh. Okay. Oh wow.
And so when you did go and she had that procedure done and you could that was it like she began to thrive. She because she could eat. Okay. That's an amazing story and no wonder. But even that like you shifted you took this information where a lot of people would say, "Oh my goodness, I'm so glad that part of my life's over.
Like she's okay. Let's move on. let's get back to whatever it is that we're doing. What was that shift like for you from personal struggle to problem solving on like a more entrepreneurial scale? It wasn't, you know, keep in mind this was 2015.
So this so the even the name like milkade I just I randomly I just I was like milkade that's this hypothetical product that should exist cuz there has to be a better way just stuck with me and I would constantly reference milkade like with my husband or even in friends where I you know if especially if I knew that they had issues with breastfeeding and I was like what would you think if this existed like what if there was a better Okay. And I would just reference it as milkmaid and obviously in those early years as we have spoken about there is so much of just surviving right like when it's not breastfeeding then there's issues with you know their diaper output. If it's not that then it's you know are they allergic to some random thing you know like it's it's constant. And so when we moved back from Australia to the US, she was about she was about 16 months. And now I'm in a completely new system.
And not long thereafter, I'm pregnant again. And so I'm like, all right, this is this is going to be a really interesting comparison as to well, what happens? And again, it wasn't like, oh, I've already done this before, so I am I have the knowledge to survive motherhood. No, this was another crash course. And to get baseline care as to what I had in Australia, we had to pay for it out of pocket.
So to have access to midwives in Milwaukee, specifically a home midwife, you're paying for that out of pocket. to have access to a lactation consultant that's out of pocket. It this isn't now just part of the standard, you know, continuity of care that Australia is operating under. This is if you want it, you have to pay for it. And if you want it, you have to know that you want it.
So for me it was like with a midwife because we did we did a home birth for our second I ensured that who whomever we went with was IBCLC certified and that was and then that's best case scenario but then we're talking if we were trans had to transfer to the hospital. Milwaukee did, they actually had a program that was super unique where you had a bridge. So, your home midwife, you still had kind of this in theory continuity of care with the hospital, those midwives, but they had opposing views. They had opposing views. They had opposing lines in the sand of what was allowable, not allowable.
And even you know home midwives they are still beholden to the law. So if you go over your due date you know at some stage you age out of the care that they can provide. I was to the day to the day where if I had delivered the next day over I was going to now go into the hospital setting. It was a very stressful time. So after the birth of my second again concerned about tongue tie and immediately had eyes on it and my midwife who was she is so amazing she said I believe that she is tongue tied let's give her the opportunity to see if she can work through this.
because there are, you know, there are feeding relationships where the baby might be tongue-tied, but it doesn't cause you pain or maybe it's causing you pain, but the baby's not tongue tied. So, there's there's different scenarios here. And so, we gave it about I could really only stomach about four or five days of it, and then we were referred out to be able to have the frenctomy as well for my youngest and away we went. So, if you hadn't had the experience that you had in Australia where you knew what to look for, I would have instantly been reaching for the bottle instantly. And you mean hers, not yourself.
Correct. Like I literally I think No, that's okay. I think if I you know, would I have pumped and offered her pumped milk? I think might have been, you know, might have been an option, but I'm a terrible pumper. I can breastfeed.
I cannot pump well. And again, so that's a reflex. So to be able to ensure that your milk is accurately coming out, that you're you have the time, that you're not stressed. I have Hashimoto's, which is a thyroid issue. I've had a breast reduction.
like I have a lot of things set up against me to not breastfeed, but the more people that I speak with, there's so many hurdles. Do you have diabetes? Did you have pre-clampsia? Did you have you know, did you hemorrhage at all when it came to post birth? These are all things that truly impact your milk supply and that could impact you strictly breastfeeding or that could also impact your pumping ability.
Like these are all again what I what I like to say is breastfeeding is natural but it doesn't come naturally. And but going into this wasn't your area of expertise. You were a mom just like any other mom learning to breastfeed. you didn't have this background knowledge that you're offering now, even in terms of different conditions that might make it more difficult. All of this has been learned since your experience.
I knew having a breast reduction. So, I had a breast reduction when I was 17 and frankly, it's kind of in my family a right of passage. Like my sister had one, I had one, my mom, my the same surgeon did me, did my mom. So, I mean, it's just a real you know, th this is what we got from my grandmother. So, thank you.
thank you, Nana. my cousin has had a breast reduction. So, it is, you know, we kind of joke is like, are we are we saving money for college or are we saving money for future breast reductions? You know, like this is this is where we're at. But, you know, I knew when I had at 17, I knew that breastfeeding might not be an option for me and I was okay with it at the time.
And so, that was always in the back of my mind of because there especially technology has changed with surgeries and do they how much tissue do they remove glandular tissue? Did they remove the nipple? Did they keep it? Did they just move it up? you know, like there's all different ways that they can do the surgery to hopefully preserve, but you don't know like until your milk comes in, you don't know what you're working with.
And that's for anybody. That's not the surgery or not surgery. So, when my milk came in and I mean it came in and I'm like this is I work I work I am show I am showing up for this but I think like again this like inherent guilt that moms face is it's like well but you fed the baby but the baby's still crying. Did you give the baby enough? Is the baby still hungry?
I don't know. I've never done this before. But also where what else in life do we face where we don't get a practice round? We don't get like not only do we not get a practice round, but oh, but a life is dependent on you. Now the there we don't have this village tribe scenario anymore where you're growing up and watching your your moms, your sisters, your aunties that are that are doing this.
you are literally alone and in a hospital setting which in full transparency I don't h I don't have the background to comment on but what I've heard like through re and read through research is the drop off rates the moment that you leave the hospital and you no longer have access to that point of care breastfeeding ceases and you can see these huge drop off rates where you know looking especially through an American lens it's like you left the hospital drop off rate you know few weeks down the road drop off rate now you're going back to the workforce drop off rate and then it stops and so the moment that you start entering a bottle and specifically formula into the diet you the breastfeeding relationship gets altered So tell me, so let's talk about Milkmaidaid and how it can potentially help all of these problems. Absolutely. So I actually have a girlfriend and she just she just had a baby and I was talking to her and she was very emotional coming as you are, right? I know. And I started crying.
And I literally thought again like Milkmaidaid would take care of this of this issue of where we have these calls from midwives and from lactation consultants, rightfully so, that breastfeeding is best. And again, I'll put an asterct on that. because obviously there needs to be two mutual people ideally a family that comes together and rallies around the support of breastfeeding. But in terms of breastfeeding being the best the best nutrition for the baby and yet we don't have these insights, right? Bring the baby to the breast, it'll do its thing.
You'll do its thing and away we go. And it's not that simple. And not that lactation consultants in any way think that it's simple. That's why they're here because they know it's not simple. But not everybody can afford to have lactation consultants.
Not everybody has the time for that. And if we're talking about do you have an optimal latch? Well, now we're gauging how the lips are formed and a seal around the areola. Well, what's happening on the inside? What if we could see on the inside of what was going on in the baby's mouth?
Is there restrictions? Is there a cleft pallet? I've I actually know somebody that they got home and they were breastfeeding their baby. And it wasn't until the milk was coming out of their nose that every time the baby fed, it was coming out of their nose. They missing the pallet on the top of its mouth.
How was that not screened? I have no idea. Oh my gosh. But that's something so extreme and that wasn't caught. So imagine if the tongue doesn't move correctly or even not breastfeeding well are indicators for other issues.
Maybe there's protocololis that's happening where the baby can't turn its neck appropriately or that could have been from birth trauma or maybe you know maybe there's lack of muscle definition. Well, that could be a sign of some kind of chromosonal anomaly. Like, these are things that can occur. And breastfeeding, the inability to breastfeed is can highlight that something else is going on, not just the baby isn't good at the breast or you aren't providing enough milk. And that is what's so frightening really about milk like why milk made exist is that what is being cited by the AAP is that the number one reason for early weaning is the perception alone that the that the infant was not satisfied at the breast.
So, and the Yes. And it is perception and you have so much self-doubt because when, like you said, when did I So, I have two kids, both of whom were breastfed. My daughter, the youngest, not that I didn't have problems sometimes or getting, you know, both of us becoming accustomed to that relationship, but it was nowhere near the situation that it was with my son when I con I had a my pediatrician offered a oneh hour like you could call in. You could call in. I basically started saying different names.
You could call in. It was like for free. " And I was like, "Well, that's not going to happen. How am I supposed to trust? I don't know what I'm doing.
I don't know when he spits up if it's too much. I don't know. You don't know what you just don't know. There's so many unknowns when it comes to bringing a life into the world that this and like you said, because a life depends on it. There's so much insecurity even when it's actually going okay.
How are you supposed to really know that it's going okay? You know, anyway, I cut you off. " Or sitting in the car and not turning the key because you don't know if it's going to run. like this is a perception that it's not going to work. But then if it's not working, well, maybe all it needs is a tuneup or maybe it needs gas or maybe it needs some huge overhaul, you know, to the engine.
I really should have thought more. I don't have enough car metaphors in my background, but what I'm saying is to think that just by the sheer perception that it might not run that we're not going to use it or that there could be these seriously early opportunities for intervention that could completely change the trajectory of breastfeeding. And that's that for me that has always been my drive is the fact it's it's almost just like my path. The fact that I was in Australia period changed my trajectory with breastfeeding. The fact that a lactation consultant was offered to me and it was free changed the trajectory.
The fact that we could go in and get her snipped and it was free was part of the trajectory to breastfeeding. This was my tribe. This was my village that helped enable us to breastfeed. And I am privileged. There are so many people here today that are in maternal deserts.
they don't have access to these types of because again I mean your access to health care is dependent on your income. It's dependent on your zip code. It's dependent on your race. It's I mean it is there's so many barriers to access health care which is horrific when you think about how amaz the health benefits that are to just breastfeeding. So you with and it and it's and I have to highlight it's not just for the lactator or for the mother.
It is for the baby as well. So most people are like oh it's great for the baby improves you know you know skin issues. We were just talking about that asthma you know their gut microbiome like all these different things. And then you talk about Yeah. Well but it also reduces cancers in the mother and lactator.
But why aren't we talking about it? Like, so just based on that alone, if you have a mother and lactator that wants to breastfeed, we should help support that. If we have a baby that can't breastfeed, we should help and support that, too. And that's where Milkmaidaid comes into play is being that support for anyone and everyone that they would be able to have access to insights that they would be able to have almost like a lactation consultant in their home with them. And to further that, to be able to send what I'm calling like lactational insights or lactivity onto their lactation consultant and getting those one-on- ons to help again improve not only just breastfeeding rates, but also breastfeeding longevity.
Jenny, can you tell us and tell and I don't know if I'm crossing the bounds of what we can talk about because this isn't a product we can access yet. So, I don't know what's proprietary, what you want to share, but can you talk about how you even would collect that kind of data looking inside the mouth, etc.? Absolutely. So, the and I have my I filed my I filed my non-provisional. So again, you know, you're only as good as what contract you have and lawyer you have and all those things.
But so I filed my non-provisional. And so this is this is simple. This is a smart nipple shield, right? And so what this and I I love to hate this and I hate to love this, but this thing was the reason why I was able to even breastfeed for 7 weeks. And so this is a sheath, a barrier that one puts on their breast.
And what that does is it helps pull in your nipple. So this is a barrier. So imagine if you have a it's like a band-aid. So imagine if you have a blister on your finger and you have to go do dishes, right? Yes.
So you know you're going to put a bandage on it. So nipple shields, they've existed for quite some time. have you did you use No, no, I did not have one and that would have been helpful. When did they start? Yes, they're they're very it's it's interesting though because as it seems like everything can be contentious or sometimes I say contentious but you know playing on tit but even tongue tie like if you do research on tongue tie there are doctors out there that don't believe it happens they don't believe it exists.
Okay. Oh wow. Okay. Okay. So then you have some lactation consultants and counselors that hate these.
They absolutely hate them and they will not recommend them. And then you have others that will say if this is what you need to be able to offer the breast, then use it. So I have to be very clear that it really is. So I am I am a component and I am pro evidence-based whatever. So each individual family viewer they have to go do their own research on why and how like where they are aligned with.
Do you believe in tongue tie? Do you not believe in tongue tie? Do you believe in nipple shields? Do you not believe in nipple shields? And it's like well why wouldn't they be for this?
And it's because for one, it can become a crutch. So there are there are moms and lactators that have invert inverted nipples that the baby might not ever be able to actually extract the nipple out without a nipple shield. So it's almost like why would you not use it? For a reason. And if it, you know, again in the camp that I'm in, if it again allows for breastfeeding and it allows for the flow of breast milk, let it rain, you know, like that's, you know, let's let the milk fall.
So, so these exist. So, and I was using these and that whole thing was with Milkmaidaid is what if this had sensors in it and it gave me data of how much was being extracted from my breast into my baby's mouth. I don't want to watch for I don't want to watch dirty diapers. And like I said, I was using cloth diapers. So, it was kind of like it was kind of one of these things of like, well, watch their output.
Well, some babies, and I'm not I'm not saying that this is ideal, but there's some breastfed babies that actually they don't, you know, they might not poop for seven days, right? So again, you're like, "Well, if I'm basing my output on their output and I'm not visually seeing it, I'm like holding a cloth diaper and I'm like, I think there's like a lot of pee. What is this? " Like I'm not I'm not a scientist. so to sit here and have, like I said, to go to these use these scales, to use, you know, subtraction to figure out if my baby's getting enough breast milk.
This is the mental load that we're talking about. And so to sit here and say there has to be a better way, nipple shield censors rock and roll. Now, I say rock and roll as in like, oh, that's super easy. Just make that happen. Obviously it takes a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of you know regulation to make sure that what is being reported back to the mother and lactator and family is accurate.
it is, you know, we want to make sure that we're not the the data because again, when you think about a newborn and the level of milk that they consume is in the droplets, you know, for the colostrum versus, let's take a three-month baby when breast milk is super established and you're, you know, providing 30 ounces a day, you know, things like that. We have to have a you know we have to make sure that our sensors are so sensitive and that's that's where you had asked like where you know where are we? It's like making sure that we have that level of efficacy in terms of what we're reporting back to the parents. So is that the hardest part of turning this product into like a tangible or this concept into a tangible product or is there another part of it? I think so I guess and I'm gonna go like very simple but it's almost like the perception alone about breast milk.
It's the perception that I can do the things that has been the biggest hurdle. And I would say, you know, I didn't I didn't grow up necessarily in a I grew up in a household where it was like we want, you know, we want to keep your ego in check. And when you're a founder, you know, your head's got to be so big, you know, you can't fit through doorways. Like, and I think what I get faced with a lot is people will say to me, "Oh, well, what's your background? Are you a are you a researcher?
" And now I've stopped saying the word just. And I'm a mom. And they're like, well, yeah, but like you need like you need Yeah, I need the things and I'm a collaborator and I will go find those things because this and I think it's Milkto their slogan is like mom on a mission. And I'm like I am I am a mom on a mission. like to me knowing how much my tribe, you know, the people that helped support me on my breastfeeding journey, as I said, changed my trajectory, changed my relationship with how I fed my daughter.
Ultimately, that is what sticks with me. That's why I became a certified lactation counselor and because I'm like, I want to do that. I want to help other people's feeding mission. And so through milkade and through collaborating with the specialists with you know the academic researchers and prototypers and sensors extraordinaires and all of those things that is what drives me to getting Milk to completion. you know, the just a mom thing that you mentioned.
I feel like that comes up in every field that there is and you know, in from a politics stance, you would hear that a lot like, "Oh, I can't run for office. I'm just a mom. What do I what do I know? " She would say, "Thank you. " So, and I just was I already knew that because to basically build themselves up because internally we're still carrying these things.
Even if outwardly we get it together and we're like, I'm it's not just a mom. I'm I'm powerful. I'm doing this. I'm doing that and I'm a mom. That just that's an asset.
That's not a detriment. How do you what is the reality of that concept versus being a man in terms of bringing a fem product to market because you know men are just not asked those questions. They may be asked what their background is but very rarely do you hear a man say I'm a dad as his qualifier. Right? And listen, we both know there is no bigger qualifier than being a mom.
Like full stop. Like that. That's what's incredible is the late nights, the early mornings, the middle of the night. Like, you know, what does it prepare us for? Well, everything.
You know, like I'm always like hostage negotiations. Exactly. If you have two kids like in a locked room screaming at each other, you are you can do a lot of things. I'm like the level of patience I exert just watching, you know, a toddler put on shoes is just like I mean, again, Mother Teresa status over here. I'm joking.
But I so two so two things that happened specifically was co. So I was actually working for a manufacturing company and I you know I was working from home at this stage and so I have no idea how I found fem focus which is Dr. Britney Berto's podcast and it was like a listening session where you could relist like you could relisten to her podcast with a group of people listening to the podcast and I show up and I mean I'm like in you know I'm like a button up and all this stuff and people are like eating their supper and it was just so casual which is not like I don't come from a casual background and I was like oh th this is completely different and they were listening to these other fem founders and they're floundering to get to that point and many of their stories is they are just a mom or they are just a patient or they're just you know a pissed-off person like pardon my French but it's like that's the I think that's that really helped enable me to say maybe I don't need to be a chemical engineer to go forth like those people exist. maybe I can reach out to people that specialize in lithium ion batteries which does exist by the way. so there was that.
So I definitely credit the fem category on a soapbox rant. I do not believe that pregnancy and birthing and breastfeeding should be a part of fem. Full stop. Because how is this fem this brings in 100% of the population. So why is it not health tech?
Why is it not health? It Well, and exactly. Why is women's health women's health at all? Right. It's just health.
So, so let's just So, if we're going to talk about the niche I'm in, which is lactation, do men not care how their offspring are fed? Do they not care about technology? And and again, like innovation and lactation is it is growing. And I am so here for it. But when we talk about, oh well, lactation is now a subset of fem is now this is post birth and this is but it's wouldn't we want to be innovating the most optimal ways to feed all of our young?
Especially when we're talking about how does lactation and breastfeeding impact the environment over formula? How does it impact health longevity over formula? Where is where's literally where is their buy in to this market? But you could technically argue that so many things that fall under fem or women's wellness really benefit the world at large, right? I mean, unfortunately, we're saying we're pushing it under there because the onus unfortunately is on the lactator, right?
So that's why we're under the fem umbrella. but you're right that it shouldn't be it shouldn't the onus on raising a child should not be on the person the child came out of or the person who's doing the bulk of the work by physically feeding them with their body. I mean the onus should be on a the people raising the child man woman etc. So I do hear you not to come like well oh well this is just a matter of syntax like why like move on right but the point is that it comes back to funding. So if fem is already underfunded and if then womenowned businesses are then underfunded if we would broaden the umbrella of health tech to include you know this isn't this isn't menopause this isn't periods like this isn't just something that impacts quote unquote those with utery and women it's that We we have to have this two to tango component to get offspring.
So there needs to be more funding in this space. I was just going to that was one of my questions. Are there any kind of systemic barriers that make bringing a breastfeeding product to market harder? And you know I we so for anybody listening Jenny and I met at a fem conference and I remember and I'm sure you remember too a woman was on stage talking about I can't remember what she was trying to bring to market but what when she pitched a room full of investors who were mostly men and it was for women I want to say it was for women's sexual wellness the men's response well what does it do for the man. Well, it makes the woman happy.
So, sometimes that's going to be enough because we've focused so much of our energy on making the men happy. And that's that's fine. They should be happy. But it's an equal opportunity joy type of situation. So, especially for something like a breastfeeding product, right?
Because that's really going to physically apply to the lactator. Are there more misogynistic barriers in terms of getting funding? And I guess it's not just in like you said syntax alone. It's Yeah, it reminds me of there. I mean, and we know like Cindy Gallup and how she talks about these stories and like it's almost like the angle that you have to have to get literal buy in from the other half of the population.
And it reminds me of so my mom she grew up you know in the 50s and 60s and so they couldn't wear pants to school the girls this isn't high school and so she pushed for this like we should be able to wear pants you know small wins and so very I mean again my mom is she is such a fierce woman and a force to reckon with. And so she went in with the newspaper and they filmed and we're this is like this type of filming started filming girls walking up the stairs bending over the water fountain in their skirts and one happened to be the principal's daughter. And that's that's the crux, right? Because lo and behold, now pants are allowed. It just takes that right hook of how do we now make it applicable to where they have that interest and that buy in.
And from my perspective, it has to be the it has to be the recipient of the breast milk, right? It has to be ensuring that their offspring, the infant is getting all of the nutrition, all of the incredible again the nurturing component, but also the actual composition of the milk and ensuring that we are we are trending in a direction that we're improving the health of our children. Are you seeing like innovation in lactation shift this conversation? Not yet. It's because like you said like if these devices if they are to help you know increase milk supply like that is just such a st a stressor that is just a that's such a mom stressor of do I have enough milk do I have enough storage stash you know is what's in this is what's in the freezer is it degrading you know like these are things that is the plastic bag that the milk is being stored in is it have chemicals in it?
Like these are there's just so much opportunity here in this space. And I see there's there I'm so optimistic, but we've got to we've we have to reduce the barriers to funding and we have to get men involved in this conversation of how we feed our how we feed our infants. you know, it's been a really long time since I breastfed. I mean, my kids are my son's almost 20, so it's been quite some time. but it's interesting because when you're talking about what we're feeding our children, now granted, my kids are a little bit older and so some of the onus is on them.
You know, they can drive places to go feed themselves. But in terms of what we bring into the house to feed them, interestingly, I will say, you know, I mean, who how many and a lot of men cook and a lot of people do, but as the mom, we seem to take on this kind of ownership of everybody else. It's part of the mental load, right, that we talk about all the time. And not everybody. It's not universal, but how many times have you heard a mom say, "I don't know what I'm going to make for dinner.
" And I know that in my case, and I have a great husband. He's a great guy. He'll care. " And I'm not asking him because I need his permission for something. I'm asking because I need his ideas because I'm out of them.
" But it's almost that same kind of handsoff mentality. And not that they not that somebody wants to be hands off, but if it's not physically happening to them, their breasts are not engorged, they are not handling mastitis or just god forbid the cuts and all the stuff that can happen in the beginning and you're just so sore and in pain a little bit. you can be. it's almost like they get used to that and then here we go. You know, I'm 20 years down the line and my husband's still like, "Hey, whatever you want.
" It's not that he intends to be hands off. It's just that his natural byproduct of what has happened in our society, saying, "Okay, he when we had kids, he didn't even have paternal leave. So, he literally went back to work two days after I had my son and there I was. I mean, when he came home at night, I will say to breastfeed him, there I was like holding up like holding myself up and he would actually take the baby and blast him on to me. I couldn't get them on, right?
So, I did have literal physical help from him. But I do think a lot of it is just such an ingrained thing that we've got to got to break ourselves out of because the children are clearly and the people we're producing are clearly produced by more than one person. Absolutely. And I think what's so sad is it's like, you know, we you have your stories, I have my stories, and so many, if not all of us have our stories, you know, and it's and it's these ones that they don't they don't leave you. They are they are with you forever.
And it is this like I kind what I say is like think about the relationships that occur when the plane's going down like the really strong bonds. It's like that is what I felt like my intro to motherhood was is like well we're close because we trauma bonded and you know it wasn't this like you know Virgin Mary you know and picture of Jesus like you know where light is cascading down it's literally just absolute chaos and calamity and it's like and that's how our bond was formed is we're both we're both just trying to survive but I'm I'm so optimistic, like I said, for the future of innovation and lactation or I say lactivation and we just have to get I think it's also, you know, something that you just highlighted about like your husband going back to work in two days. You cannot talk about breastfeeding and you cannot talk about you know the longevity here or in initiation rates or longevity if we don't talk about paid parental leave in the United States. It is not going to happen that we have this continuation of breastfeeding despite the World Health Organization supporting it, despite the Academy of American Pediatrics supporting it. if we don't have federal paid leave.
I would I agree and I'm glad you brought it up because I was going to ask you, you know, what role do you think these things policy workplace support play in making breastfeeding easier for parents? I mean, I can remember, again, this is going back, but when my daughter was a baby, was she done breastfeeding? I don't know if she was, but I went to a conference. I went to a book conference and I met a woman who I'm still friendly with. But I met her because she was like flustered walking in and we were both carrying soup strangely.
But her so that was one of the common bonds, but the other one was she was flustered because she had to just go. It was her first time having to go pump. It was her first time being away from her child and she had to pump like in a huge convention center that you know obviously isn't set up to accommodate lactating moms. I mean, she's someplace stuffed in a bathroom stall. She's trying to pump.
She doesn't know what to do. She doesn't know where she can store her stuff. I mean, we don't make it easy to to be a mom at all, but we definitely don't make it easy to be a breastfeeding mom. So, what do you think we need to see in terms of our workplace supports? You know, breast breastfeeding works on supply and demand, right?
So if if there's not a demand, then you don't supply it. Like you have to have your breast milk completely pulled out of your breasts. " And so this so along this relationship goes, I look at policy as no different. We have to demand it. And one of it, one of that is knowing the difference between what is common and what is normal.
I could sit here and say mastitis is common for breastfeeding moms, but is it normal? No. An infection is not normal in your breast. That is that is not normal. It's the same goes for policies that we are beholden to in the US.
You sit here and say, "Oh, well, these policies are common. " But then you look at bordering state Canada and I mean people fall out of their seat when they hear about the access to leave that they have or the support that they have. You look at Australia again, I you know, I'll sit here and say when I was living in Australia, I was an American and then when I moved here, I'm now Australian because I'm looking around, I'm like, where are the alarm bells going off that this is other large countries do not tolerate what we have deemed as normal and it's not normal. It's common. And so the US being the only country in the OECD nation that does not have paid parental leave is I mean just shocking.
But then what does that spill out over to you? like you said like the fact that you're home alone and you're two days into and into and to learning how to do this. What is I mean this spills over into breastfeeding rates obviously longevity. " Like, and again, not that I'm discounting that diagnosis at all, but what are we setting up to help not have postpartum blues? Like maybe in the best case scenario, you still have postpartum blues and maybe you have postpartum depression, right?
Like that you need access to care. But even still, if you're not getting checked up by your doctor for 6 to 8 weeks after the baby's born, is that is that when our barometer is for having a a check-in? like we need to dial our threshold way back. And not to mention, you know, it's not just us. Like think about for the fathers like they're losing that bonding time with a baby, losing that access to feeling like they can support the child by themselves.
Because what this did was I mean in my case, and I'm sure this is the case for so many people, but I remember you know it was a Saturday. My husband's home, he's holding the baby. Maybe the baby's three weeks old. Maybe the baby's four weeks. I don't know.
The baby's weeks old. And I went to take a shower and he came up to the door. He's like, he's crying. You know, he must need you again. I'm like, you'll be okay.
But he doesn't know that. How would he know that when his bonding time is reduced to two hours or two days a week? It's just Yeah, I think it needs to change for everybody. So, absolutely. And I'm glad I'm glad you said that as well because we don't live in villages.
It is usually our partner that is our first line of defense. It's the person that is bringing us the food. It is the person that is, you know, making us a smoothie or making sure we're drinking enough water. that we're healing. Like this is just such a traumatic even in a non-traumatic birth, it is so traumatic to your body and you know and you have some countries that the mother doesn't leave the bed for 40 days.
Like that's a that's like a set you know model of care and then here we have mothers that are going back to work within days. And the question like what implication does that have for the rest of both of their lives? Like it's it's immeasurable. Exactly. It is immeasurable.
So, okay. On top on top of the bajillion challenges that we have nationwide. And I also want to add in case anybody is wondering, you are from the US. You are born and raised in the US before going to Australia. Correct.
So, I'm American. Went over to Australia, naturalized. so did the whole swearing in ceremony and all of those fun things. And then I'm actually married to a Canadian. So we have we you know I have these different touch points of again very on a small scale but just the knowing that different countries do different things has then opened my eyes to being like well I wonder how the UK does it or what you know like let's just like dive in and see again how can we define normal versus common.
I like that distinction a lot. and but in terms of all these challenges, what's your biggest challenge right now in terms of Milkade? And what's a call to action you'd like to put out there? It's definitely funding. So, I'm in this what I'm told is normal.
normal is you know when you're a when you're a founder it's like you need the things right but then to get the things you need money so it's this is you know around and around you go and so to that I'm bootstrapping me I me and my husband we're bootstrapping so need to make sure that he's you know gets credit where credit's due because he believes in milkade as well he's he's seen firsthand the need for it and especially speaking to other moms and breastfeeders like, "Hey, just for the record," he's in sales, but hey, for the record, what would you think if this exists? " Absolutely. I would buy that thing. " Like, see what pumping is and measure it and then you'll know if you're making enough milk. It's it's not the same.
So I just want to be very clear that being hooked up to a machine that is a vacuum effectively your let down reflex is not the same as looking into the eyes of your baby. Okay. And also like you said being in a cold being in a toilet stall and pumping or being in a cold server room and pumping. it's not going to give you the same accurate rates of what is actually going into your baby and so I just to be clear on any like naysayer as to why we would need milkade but it's definitely funding it's definitely getting the word out of just the space in itself like innovation and lactation lactivation and really you know this is very timely, but as it stands right now, there are a lot of areas in health that are under attack and breastfeeding is one of them. I for the life of me cannot understand why breastfeeding would be under attack, but there have been a scrubbing of the CDC's website on breastfeeding, our rates, our breastfeeding card.
I just clicked a link right before we dropped in and it's been taken down. So, and I should point out this is we are speaking today on February 19th, 2025. So, who knows what we'll be missing by the time this podcast airs. The podcast itself could disappear, but hopefully that won't happen. We could disappear.
You know, it's it's it's all it's all, as I say, you know, up for grabs. So, it's I think we can't have like we can't have funding if we don't have research. And if we don't have research, then what is all of this for? Because that's not it's not going to be able to be the proof that I need to investors to get funding. So, we're all of this is so interwoven into why we need each other.
And if we don't have institutions that then also help provide the research, then again it's like the I'm not going to get the legs that I need to progress forward. So what can people do to support you in terms of the funding and the and the research? I mean obviously we nobody listening to this podcast has access to federal records at their fingertips as a civilian. So they do give me a call. Yes, exactly.
So what can what can we do to support you? Is there a crowdfunding option or will you have one set up by the time this airs and I can link to it? Yes, that thing. and then also on my website which is being revamped undergoing marketing and bedazzling I'll also have place where people can buy t-shirts as well which not only does that will that help fund milkade but also women and lactators are amazing. So it will also just put it out there of what titilizing conversations can do and you know put forth for the call for funding as well in this space and awareness too.
So absolutely. So okay Jenny last question for you. So the roar podcast the whole reason I started it is to highlight the many ways that women make an impact on the lives of other women but a lot of times people are hesitant to step in. you know, they say I'm just a mom or I don't have the expertise or what am I going to do about it? Like the problem is so huge.
What's your advice for someone who wants to create change but doesn't know where to start. So I want to say just start like oh just that easy. But you know a phrase that we use and I use this as well in some of my branding and messaging is a woman of action for lack. It's that action piece, right? Which is I believe that a lot of us have these things in the in the depths of us that we are just so beyond miffed about, right?
Like is it speeding cars? Is it politics? Is it the fact that, you know, nice guys finish last or the bad guys always win? Like there's something inherent inside of us that each makes us what whatever you want to call it, special, weird, you know, the, you know, the person that's always on their soap box, like lean into it and bolster it. like whatever you can do that is turning that rift into an action and amplifying it I think is really my key takeaway.
I didn't wake up, you know, when I was like in college and like you know what I'm really into is milk. Like I that's so weird, right? Like that would be so weird. It wasn't until I was literally on the back steps of our Australian, you know, stoop basically, and I'm crying, the baby's crying, cucaras are literally taunting me, and I'm thinking, I don't even care if milk is weird. Like, this is this is now like my jam.
This is what I This is what I'm into. is making sure that other mothers don't feel this way. And it's still happening. It's still today in February 19th of 2025. Mothers are still crying.
They're still spilling over are still crying over spilled milk and they're still not knowing what their activity is. And we have so many trackers. We have trackers for where dogs defecate. That is an app. There is an app for that.
There is apps for sex. There's wearable rings to know how much you sleep at night. Yeah. Yes, there is a tracker for everything. But our feet be how much of our we draw the line.
We draw the line apparently at children's nourishment. So exactly in nutrition like we again our threshold we gota we got to bring it way back. We got to start we start we have to start demanding more. It's like we started at steps but we like we should have started with nourishment and gone on but we all know how many steps we've taken in a day whether we want to or not. It took to our phone it's automatic right but there is like a I think there's like a smart there's there's a smart dildo now that can that can that can tell you like where your good spots are and stuff like that.
So, we're making progress. We're making progress. We just need to dial it also into other realms of benefits to all of mankind. All of mankind. We will leave it with that.
But you are awesome. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. I feel like whether you have kids, you don't have kids, you nurse them, you bottlefed them, like it's just so interesting to know that, like you said, like what's normal or what's common is not normal. And what we have universally accepted as normal when we don't have to, you know, when there are options out there or there could be.
So, I thank you for shining a light on that. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. definitely keep Milkade on your on your radar. I am so so happy that you asked me to be on here and thank you so much.
Thanks for listening to Roar. If Jenny Lyn Walding's story reminded you that motherhood doesn't come with a manual, but sometimes it does come with innovation. I hope you'll share this episode with a friend, subscribe, or leave a review. We love hearing what resonated with you. And don't miss next week's conversation with Marina Rabinck, a 24-year Navy veteran and founder of the Military Women's Collective.
We'll talk about what it means to navigate life after service, the power of peer support, and how Marina is building lasting community for women who've worn the uniform. Thanks for being here. Talk soon.
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