"Is This Normal?" The Sex Questions Women Don't Ask Out Loud

What if the questions you’ve been quietly Googling…are the ones everyone else is asking too?

In this episode of Roar, Danielle Davies hosts a candid, unfiltered roundtable conversation about sex—the kind women usually have in whispers, group texts, or not at all.

Joined by pelvic floor physical therapist Caitlyn Tivy, sex therapist Alex Robboy, and LUWI founder Lisa Kinsella, this conversation brings together three distinct perspectives on women’s bodies, desire, and agency.

Because for something that plays such a significant role in our lives, many women were taught that sex was either private, taboo, or something that should just “work itself out.”

This conversation breaks that silence.

From pain and discomfort to desire, communication, and the reality of navigating sex across different life stages, this episode creates space for honesty, without shame, performance, or perfection.

Danielle and her guests explore what it means to actually understand your body, communicate your needs, and question what we’ve been taught is “normal.”

Together, they talk about

🔥 Why so many women are asking “is this normal?”—and why that question matters

🎤 The things we were never taught about our bodies (and should have been)

🧠 How shame shapes our relationship with sex—often without us realizing it

🌿 The role of pelvic health in comfort, pleasure, and function

💥 Why desire changes—and why that’s not a problem to fix

📣 How to have honest (and sometimes awkward) conversations about sex

👑 The gap between what women are told and what they actually experience

⚡ Why more information leads to better—not more “perfect”—sex

This episode is a reminder that sex isn’t something you’re supposed to just figure out alone, and that asking questions is often the first step toward agency, comfort, and connection.

If you’ve ever wondered “is this normal?”—you’re not alone.

🔑 Key Takeaways

You’re not the only one asking the questions you think are “weird.”

There is no single definition of “normal” when it comes to sex.

Your body is not the problem—lack of information often is.

Desire changes over time, and that’s part of being human.

Honest conversations create better experiences than silent assumptions.

Listen to ROAR with Danielle Davies: Women, Culture & Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. New conversations every Tuesday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5EDRgA0OOI

Full Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and lightly cleaned up. It may contain small errors.

I think the more we learn about the sexual response in all people, but especially in folks born with ovaries, the more we realize it's very complicated and it is almost never just physical or just mental, emotional. It's usually a lot of both. That's part of our conversation on sex. And this is Roar. Hi everybody.

Welcome to Roar. This is Danielle Davies and today we have a very special episode. Today's conversation is one a lot of women have privately. It happens in texts, in whispered conversations, and in late night Google searches. " We're talking about sex, not in a clinical way, not in a performative way, but in a real human, slightly awkward, sometimes funny way.

Because for something that's such a huge part of our lives, a lot of us were taught that it was either private, taboo, or just supposed to magically work itself out. I'm really excited about the group joining me today because they each come at this conversation from a completely different but really complimentary perspective and they are all amazing women who have been on this podcast before. So, we've got Caitlyn Tivyy who's a physical therapist. She works extensively with pelvic floor concerns, helping women better understand what's actually happening in their bodies, especially when it comes to comfort, pain, tension, and function, and how to stop normalizing things that deserve real attention. She also consults with women health startups.

She brings a scientific lens to how products, education, and care actually meet women where they are. Alex Robbie is a sex therapist who genuinely wants people to have great sex. Full stop. She works with individuals and couples around desire, communication, and confidence. And she's also known for bringing sex education into unexpected places like bachelorette parties with the goal of less shame, more information, and a lot more fun.

And Lisa Canella is the founder of LUWI, the finer liner, created after her own real life experiences navigating divorce, a history of breast cancer, limited contraception options, and the reality that women don't always have as much control as we're told we do. Her work sits at the intersection of health, design, safety, and agency. So, yes, we're going to talk about things that can still feel a little mortifying to say out loud, especially for the nonsex professionals like me. desire changes, awkward conversations, sex toys, and the fact that some of these things are now sold at CVS, but we're going to do it in a way that feels honest. I hope grounded, and maybe even a little fun.

I could be very red. Hopefully, you're not looking at me the whole time. and look at everybody else because if we can't talk about this here, where can we? ladies, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having us.

and also I gave everybody the caveat that I would say you guys a lot because it's very New Jersey of me and I've never done a panel on the podcast before, but I already started off with ladies. So, we're in the right direction. let's just start right with the most embarrassing that way for me. The most embarrassing for me and it shouldn't be. That's the other part of it.

talking about sex toys still makes me feel a little bit mortified. " So, clearly something has shifted. And I'm going to start with Alex. Alex, why does fun sex still feel embarrassing for people like me? [laughter] That's a great question.

I feel like there's a million different answers, but I think there's so much secrecy and shame around sex that it can be really hard to acknowledge the pleasurable aspects and why everybody's doing it. And, you know, secrecy just shuts people down unless they're having a Oh, but everyone is doing it. Everyone is doing it. And apparently added stimulation and support can actually make sex more comfortable. Caitlyn, since you're working with the physical body a lot or you do in your practice, can you speak to that a little bit?

Yeah, definitely. It's a really good point. And in a lot of the work that I do, there is an element of vibration in many sex toys, but also therapeutic tools that people are using to, like you said, make sex more comfortable. I would I should level set and say that this can apply to anybody regardless of whether or not you're having penetrative sex. Some people have discomfort just with penetration, whether it's with a penis or a toy or something else.

But other people have symptoms, problems with just touch and just any stimulation to the genitalia. but as you noted, Danielle, regardless of where someone's discomfort is, if they have it, vibration and stimulation can be really powerful tools to reduce pain. [snorts] Without getting a little too nerdy about it, which I am prone to do, we have a number of different nerve receptors in our body, in the skin, in the muscles, and in all the tissues, in all the various different tissues. And some of them respond specifically to vibration impulses. Actually, some of them respond to pressure, some of them respond to temperature.

Each different little nerve fiber is specialized. So, the more different inputs we can get to those nerve fibers, the more interested those nerves become. The more the more the body goes, oh, hey, what's going on down there? So that's one reason why for a lot of sex toys, for example, vibration is a component of it because it specifically talks to nerves that are involved in both arousal and in muscle relaxation. You've often may have heard like the phrase of, "Oh, honey, if it hurts, just have a glass of wine and relax.

" That's my pet peeve. I absolutely hate that. But with every lie or myth, there's always a nugget of truth, right? And we know that if the body is tense or the muscles are tense, pain can result. So vibration and stimulation can help muscles relax too.

So for folks where who experience pain because of tightness, it can be a really powerful tool as well. Okay. And honestly, just hearing the clinical side of it makes it feel more accessible. Do you know what I mean? " Lisa, totally few who've got who've got, you know, upcoming products that are going to be in these aisles.

What shifted culturally when lube and vibrators moved into just mainstream stores? This used to be like taboo. Yeah, absolutely. I know it's been so exciting this period of time. I think the I think it's very generational.

I think, you know, I interface a lot with these two groups. one, it's, you know, my peers, permenopausal, right? A lot of OBGYNS, they're serving permenopausal women and, you know, moms of teens and then Gen Z. And the contrast between those two generations is really stark. And it's so fun to to be surfing this wave of that shift, right?

I mean for us largely our foundations were really negative right back then in you know sex education what sophomore year in high school or maybe it was seventh grade we went to in Chicago we went to the crown center and learned how a baby was born you know it was like really super awkward and that messaging back then was condom on a banana otherwise you women you girls you are going to ruin your lives you're going to have a baby or a disease And that was that. And it was negative. It was scary. It was shameful. And you don't you didn't talk about it.

And that is so very different from today. I think there have been a lot of shifts just in society over the past decade that have ushered in this ability for this new generation, Gen Z, which is very subjective, right? They are they are the they are the star of their own shows right they that is a natural right their Instagram it's all about selfie it's all about them and that's great that is needed to be able to own your pleasure and I think you know the what fem was first coined in I think 2017 yeah and it didn't really hit our consciousness until a few years later right I mean what like that never a thing until 10 8 to 10 years ago. That's crazy. I think after that we see you know what was like really next after that the a me too where women's voices you know that felt that came right after I think didn't that come right after it really went viral right after Fentep came and so for the first time women's voices were big and heard that was a big shift and then we go in then we go into this dark period of co where everybody is focus focused on self-p protection and you know their themselves.

Oh my god, I got to I got to walk. I mean, handashing was always a thing, but oh my gosh, that was so pro, you know, top of mind. And then we come out of that like advocacy and health awareness to do, right, Roie Wade in 2022, like oh my gosh, these are really big shifts. You add in this generation that's all about themselves. And I think that's what's so exciting.

you we are in this massive cultural shift where it is not awkward for them. It is. They are open. And when I'm on campus with these kids because that is our first go to market is on college campuses. They are so eager.

There is nothing taboo. They have questions. They want to know. They're with their roommate, their boyfriend, their, you know, just a classmate. They have no shame.

They are open. They are excited. They are eager. And I love that. That's how it should be.

I take a lot of my examples, you know, from them and try and apply it to my own life with my kids and their peers. Right. Absolutely. Well, that but that's the thing and you guys are versed in this. You know, this is the world that you are most comfortable in.

Like you can have these conversations and then we see it from Gen Z. They're talking about it and that's awesome for the future and Alex and I have talked about how like even I mean I'm not going to bring them into it, but like even our kids are having these conversations as well. But for women who are maybe didn't grow up, you know, Lisa, you talked about your sex education and honestly that was like that is like so far above what we got here in like rural outside of Ocean City, New Jersey. Like there was [laughter] I mean it's a miracle that there are that we've repopulated. [laughter] How Alex when we talk about this kind of stuff like how can women our age or of older generations who maybe didn't grow up with this how can we explore curiosity without feeling like we have to become our daughters or without feeling like we have to be somebody that we're totally not like we're not going to just put on you know our new persona in the bedroom maybe how can we do it without feeling like we're still ourselves.

I mean, with feeling like we're still ourselves, right? So, I feel like there's a couple of things one needs to do, which is talking to your girlfriends about this. Just getting practice using your voice in a very safe environment because if you're experiencing this, probably all of your friends are experiencing something similar. The other is opening lines of communication with your partner and sharing what you're really feeling. Because the funny thing in relationships is they tend to mirror your same emotions, a different version of it.

and they really know you in the bedroom and they have the same goal. They want to have fun just as much as you do. I love that. And I love that you say it because it is supposed to be fun and it's and that Well, you know what? I'm not even gonna go there because I almost just went down like a whole rabbit hole of is it supposed to be fun culturally like there's a whole movement of people who would I always think back I hope none of my aunts or uncles mind that I'm just going to share this with you and then move on but my grandparents are Irish Catholic and they had eight kids and apparently after the fifth kid you know my grandmom had like her body had enough and the doctors were like you should not have any more children you know and so they went to their priest and they said can use birth control and the priest said no, you know that you got to trust.

And so, thank goodness they did because now I have my auntise, my aunt Kathy, and my uncle Steve. But it's really not funny. I mean, it's funny to me in retrospect, but it's not really funny at all. And we're going to just keep this a fun topic. And yes, sex is supposed to be fun and it is supposed to be enjoyable.

let's talk a little bit about questions women tend to keep to themselves because Alex, you even mentioned, you know, talking to your partner or talking to your friends, but sometimes there are questions that start with, is this normal? And people don't necessarily want to ask that of their friends, their partners, even themselves. Caitlyn, you see a lot of physical stuff. What's a physical concern you hear a lot about women that are often surprised to learn that it's really common that women are surprised to learn it's actually really common? My gosh, I feel like almost everything that I see I have this moment.

the squeaking in the background are my animals. they make lots of noise and they I'm on calls. Oh, [laughter] okay. Good. They like to wait until I'm on phone calls.

so I think because I deal because clinically I deal with people who are coming in with problems, I'm going to see a lot of those things that people aren't willing to ask about their friends or ask their partner or talk to others about. So I'm a little biased, but I deal I joke often that I talk about pee, poop, and sex for a living, which I do as a pelvic health physical therapist. And there are concerns spanning all of those areas that I think women and anybody who's born with a vagina ends up being told is normal or assume is normal. on the bladder side of things, especially for folks in midlife, people think that it's normal to pee their pants, to leak a little when they sneeze or cough, or they think it's a normal to be become more constipated with time or age. And I bring those up even though we're talking about sex because the bladder and the bowels are very close to the vagina and the other sexual organs, right?

So those symptoms are not normal even though we've normalized them. Often times someone who has one of those problems also has some sexual dysfunction. I think especially if we're thinking about folks in midlife, there's a myth that, well, you're just getting older, so sex isn't going to be as comfortable anymore. It's not going to be as fun. you're just going to have to do it for your partner.

You're not going to enjoy it. And I think that's a really harmful and dangerous myth on both the physical and the mental emotional side. A lot of folks in midlife deal with vaginal dryness, for example, especially as their hormones start shifting, but we have lots of tools and options to help address that now, so that people don't have to just grin and bear it if they're having discomfort or friction or pain or bleeding after sex. So, I can't even touch on all of the things that women come into my office saying, "Oh, I just thought this was normal. " And I think the biggest takeaway that I tell a lot of people is common does not equal normal.

Yes, it's common. A lot of your girlfriends might be having this, too. And I don't want you to feel alone because you're having vaginal dryness, for example. However, that doesn't mean you have to accept it. There's stuff we can do to help.

Hope that makes sense. Yeah, that totally makes sense. And actually, because I was because I was looking at it as the lens of, you know, we're not alone in these thoughts and feelings, but also we may not be alone, but [clears throat] we're all suffering something we don't have to be suffering with. Yeah, thank you for pointing that out. I think it's [laughter] kind of a thing.

Yeah, if I could jump in. I think what I see in these, you know, my world is split between these two generations. is that the older generation, right? They're they think they're supposed to know. They think that they're just supposed to know.

And what and the reality is for animals, sex is instinctual. It's natural. Like the you know, the male the female fox goes into heat and then the male fox senses it and then you know that's natural and instinctual and they know how to do it. It is not instinctual for humans. It is not a natural act.

It is something that is learned. It is largely informed by society and culture and physiology. And all of these things change over time. We are not supposed to know. This is something that we learn through our life experiences and growth and soc through society around us.

And so when you take that and I think that's the mindset that the Gen Z's have. Oh, I don't know. I want to learn. I want to consume more info on this because I want to figure this out. And I and I think I see that as a big barrier.

We're just supposed to know. Like, who says? Mhm. Yeah. Lisa, I that you're when you mentioned that too, it made me think of the exact opposite situation too because you're straddling these two different generational windows.

And I see the same thing as well in younger people who come in and for example pain with sex especially penetrative sex is pretty common in young women under the age of 30 for example but they come in they don't have the problem necessarily of thinking they're supposed to know but they have the problem of thinking I'm too young to have something wrong. Why am I broken? I'm only 25. So there's there it happens on both sides right younger and older. Mhm.

Alex, what do you what do you see in your practice regarding that people are supposed to know? I think it comes in I think everybody is right on this one. that we are supposed to know there's all this information on the internet. I mean you could go to chat GBT or some of the other sites and get a plethora of information. The problem is it doesn't really address always your particular situation.

And so it's like you have half the facts and then you make up all kinds of stories to go with it. and people really don't have the tools or the skills to have honest conversations or they don't even know what the right questions are. And so if you're asking the wrong question, you're just in trouble. Do you see this like playing out in a certain way over and over again? Just out of curiosity, like is there a more common scenario when you say people don't know the questions to ask or is it varied?

You know, like it's all over the board. It's like, you know, you come back after pregnancy maybe where you were dealing with infertility issues and now you're trying to have sex and now it's painful and you feel like there's something broken and you have this vision that I should just be able to make it happen. Like everything's going well in my life. I've had the baby and they're not realizing like they just went through a traumatic experience and they have to relearn their body. They have to go back to the basics and they have to ask the 101 questions all over again.

It's like sex is a natural instinct. It's a drive. But at every different stage, you need different skills to help you navigate. Oh, okay. And Lisa, thinking about like systems and and kind of where you are in that, from your perspective, do you see where what's something you see women quietly figuring out on their own that suggests the system isn't always meeting them?

I think because sex today is like everywhere and maybe nowhere too for at least for the older generation there it's more open so there's a lot of comparing notes and I think there's a guardedness with an with you know generations that didn't grow up like the Gen Z's and so they're only comparing certain notes like they're sharing certain things and feeling shame about maybe fully being honest. And I don't see that with a Gen Z. I mean, they're they're so open and not shaming themselves if they don't know or if they have, at least that's what I'm seeing. And I'm not, you know, I'm not in the doctor's office like you are, Caitlyn, or you know, I mean, I'm I'm on campus. They're they're fully clothed and we're talking about this stuff.

So, I don't know if that's I get less or more. I'm not sure. but yeah, I don't know if I've answered the question. I think our whole goal is to help change this narrative that, you know, safe protective sex doesn't have to sacrifice feeling. And so, that's our overarching belief.

I mean, that is why this company exists, right? to bring products that provide this safety and this protection that also give way to the fields all the fields because it should be fun it should feel good and so with within that context I think that opens up a lot of paradigm shifts that opens up people to say oh yeah wow I just kind of thought that and well what else did I just kind of think that is not how it should be you know we get a lot of lot of a lot of questions about porn Right. Porn is obviously teaching a very explicit, negatively prone to violence view. " Whereas other generations, well, maybe that's what it should be. Maybe I should do that.

I don't want to do that, but maybe I should. And as we go through more educa, I honestly think that the more the Gen Z's are educated that will inform the rest of the generations. We've really spent a lot of our time there. you know, one of our adviserss is Justin Garcia at the Kinsey Institute and he has shared that with everything in life, the older generations inform the younger with the exception of sex and dating. It's the opposite.

So, to the degree that we can really help educate these Gen Z's and lean into what they're asking and how they're comparing notes and and what images are and questions they have and thoughts they have about this that's going to filter up. That's what we believe anyway. I don't know if you guys have a different thought. What do you guys think about that? It's I have to say I just having teenage kids and you know one that's 21 that's 17 you there are certain things that filter up and I will also add to what Justin said and it's like technology is also filtering up like that's another one but sometimes they go hand in hand because so much of what kids are hearing and exposed to is through technology and social media and so like you know I mean I remember years ago being in Philadelphia Alex and we saw [sighs and snorts] oh god, there's there was a drug that unfortunately is just a terrible drug, but it has people bent over and it was the first time I heard about this drug and my daughter was there with her friend and they're like, "Oh yeah, it's blah blah.

You don't know about this? " And I was like, I had absolutely no idea. And I'm like, and how do you know about it? But there are certain things that are are going upwards. And I do think that's a that's a pretty ade accurate assessment of it.

And I and you don't hear by the way from let's let's go back to midlife for one second because you know one of the big differences and I don't think you hear this but maybe maybe they're privately telling each other and we don't know. but Jenz's you don't hear them talk about the I don't want this anymore or I'm not in the mood. you know, they're they're at like a the beginning of their sexual lives. So, they're not necessarily exhausted. They haven't necessarily gone through per well, they haven't gone through pmenopause, but they've also not had the life experiences that kind of derail you or make you a little bit tired.

I think in if you ever saw the movie oh my goodness it's an old movie where Shoulless Joe Jackson basically is in the movie and he comes out of the woods Field of Dreams and Kevin Bacon yeah thank you and Kevin Bacon says I'm not like I'm not even a glimpse in his eye yet life hasn't worn him down yet like and it's true I mean as sad as that sounds life just does wear you down we take on more responsibilities so there's a lot of women that I hear and I don't hear this from the younger generation. So, I don't think we're going to get this passed up. Hopefully not. but they'll say, "I'm tired. I just don't want to do it.

I don't have any interest in having sex. " [snorts] From a body perspective, Caitlyn, how often is not wanting to actually the body responding to discomfort or tension or pain? That's a really good question and I'm I'm excited to hear Alex's thoughts on this too because I think the more we learn about the sexual response in all people, but especially in folks born with ovaries, the more we realize it's very complicated and it is almost never just physical or just mental emotional. It's usually a lot of both, right? And this idea that we should have spontaneous desire to jump into bed with our partners is probably a false script that has been fed to us from like Lisa was talking about porn and social media and entertainment etc.

And that's a whole another can of worms. That said, keeping in mind that sex and desire are multifaceted and come from body and emotions and brain and energy levels often times, especially for my folks in midlife, there is a huge physical component that is if not driving at least contributing to that lack of desire. We know from a pain perspective of course that a lot of people do deal with what's called the genital urinary syndrome of menopause or GSM. It used to be called vulvo vaginal atrophy. You may have heard that term or seen that term.

Basically changes to the vagina. It gets drier as estrogen declines. The tissues get a little less elastic. They don't stretch as well. They don't respond as well.

They might not get as much blood flow as they used to. So very physical components there. Also physical components in other parts of your body. What if you just had a knee replacement? What if your back you have some back problems?

Those things also affect sex too, right? Think about it. If the rest of your body doesn't feel good, how the heck are you to enjoy sex, right? And then there's also the top down effect, we like to call it, of the changing hormones as well in midlife and how they impact energy and libido. For sure.

As we enter the pmenopause window, testosterones and related tes hormones start to decline too and those are a big contributor to sex interest in sex as well. So long answer to say yeah it happens a lot. physical components play in neurochemical components like neurotransmitters and hormones play in and then like you were talking about life gets in the way as well. So, I encourage people to give themselves a little bit of grace and patience cuz you're going through a lot, my friend. It's it's a lot to deal with.

You know what? It's funny because when I spoke with Alex in a previous episode, she leaned toward this. So, I'm going to turn the floor over to her in a second, but I think it's really funny that you just called it interested sex because there's like there's sex, but there's also interested sex. Alex, what do you suggest? Because I know we What do you suggest?

Well, let me just start by saying everything that Caitlyn just said I 100% agree with and I don't think I could have answered that any better than she did. I would just add that I've been very interested in the sematic experience of body work lately and this whole idea that people often go into flight, fright or freeze reactions. And so when you want to engage in good sex, you really need to bring a level of safety into the room so that your whole body can relax and be at its best. And I'm actually not talking about always the 100% like the hallmark kind of safety sex, but it's like you need to your body needs to release enough so that you can be present in the experience. because I do think good sex runs on energy, you know, excitement, positive, negative, all of that.

so again, I always come back to communication is the biggest piece. and your expectations. If you're expecting to have good sex, you're more likely to have good sex. If you are having the skills, meaning you are you've maximized your diet, you're in good nutritional health, you're eating, you know, as women, you're eating enough protein, you're physically exercising, you're getting your blood flow naturally, your body is going to work better and it's going to work with you a little bit more easily. Quick pause because if you're listening to Roar, I have a feeling you're exactly the kind of person I write for.

I send out a Substack newsletter where I go a little deeper, more personal stories, behind the scenes thoughts, and honestly, some of the things we don't always say out loud here. com. I'd love to have you there. And now, back to your regularly scheduled podcast. It's crazy to think about all these things that affect your mental state going into sex or even physically like from a knee replacement to your diet.

but one more component about the safety, Lisa, how do you feel about that, especially coming from somebody who created LUWI liner and sorry, I'm just jumping in and telling people. So, LUWI liner, but it part of part of the whole premise is that women have autonomy and or that anyone who chooses to use the liner has autonomy, but that is also a part of feeling safe during sex. Right. Absolutely. LUWI Finer Liner is the first pleasure centered alternative to a condom that a woman could control.

And I do think that's essent essential. You that is number one. You got to feel like you're going to be okay. How can we close this pleasure gap and that is something that comes up with Gen Z. They want to be able to have an orgasm, you know, women as much as men.

How can that be? How can they be set up for success when they're nervous and worried and he doesn't want to wear a condom and oh gosh, you know, that is not where we want to be. That's not where we need to be. So, we're we've designed this product for how it ought to be, right? I don't know if relying on a guy to use something that doesn't feel good and was constricting and desensitizing was ever a good strategy, you know, but hey, that's like all we have right now really.

So, but I would argue that Gen Z's, you know, they have they have a lot on their plate. They are juggling way more than any Gen X did. I mean, you know, when I was in high school and college, nobody remembered anything I said or did, right? You know, these kids every sing like I was so little informed about politics, it just didn't seem to impact me in any way. " I just applaud them so much for that.

And and that is one of what an aspect that really completely drives me. I want to be able to provide this solution to these kids to have one less thing to worry about. You know, another thing cuz we're latex free. Another thing that we're noticing is MCCAST, multi- cell activation syndrome, is so off the charts today that essentially is just I don't know if it's a what is that? I'm so sorry.

Response that causes so many allergies. It's increasing allergies. Thank you. And so these kids are they have more allergies than any other generation. Obviously, what's near and dear is that latex allergy.

So we watch that a lot and that we've got a market of a category of products that is latex only largely and we've got this group that is supposed to be using them and they're allergic to them or maybe not aniflactic shock allergic but irritation is a result of using them because of this mcast that's increased. So yeah, I mean we all have our generational things that we're carrying, but I think that the Gen Z is carrying a lot, too. And [clears throat] so, you know, you're you're totally right. And it's such a such a mom mo fail of mine to not acknowledge that. And sometimes my son will be like, I am doing more than you have ever.

And I'm like, back off there, buddy. I pushed you out. Yeah. I'm like I have done hard things. But you're absolutely right and it's sometimes I think we need to kind of step back and think about that and then but I do see and I'm sorry this isn't anything that I said we were going to talk about so I but you guys are fine.

one of the things I've noticed is like, in the Gen Z world, is that they're so much more confident [clears throat] knowing or expressing themselves as who they are, sexually, who their identity is sexually. So, you know, obviously back in my day or, you know, I didn't even know until recently that the Stonewall riots happened really in I think the late 60s, 50s or 60s, but it's it's just within a stones throw of my birth. So, you know, when my mom and I talk about my godfather who was a gay man and how he was engaged to a woman three times in his life because he tried so hard to be someone he wasn't, right? Yes. And kind of Exactly.

" So I feel like kids now are so much so that but that's just one more open for sure. " Because there was a football player that had come out of the closet or he was in the closet and then he came out open, you know, he was gay and they didn't even know, right? And you know, we have family that's gay, too. " And he said, "Oh, did that happen to our family, too? " He just couldn't believe that, right?

Oh my gosh, how could someone just not be who they are and just be open with it. And so, yeah, I understand what you're saying, but and now like there are so many more expressions of sexuality. You know, there's there's and transsexuality, asexuality, bisexuality. I mean, I do feel like the younger generation is much more adaptable and much more open about that. And Alex, yes, I can see your hand.

What were you going to say? I think people are very knowledgeable and they have so much more information, but I actually think people's emotional skills are much more limited today than it was. Partly because we had COVID with the entire world shutting down where people simply interacted with others less frequently and if you think people were turning to the internet to interact, it allows you to disconnect and have a little bit less empathy for the other person. So, in some ways, people are much more alone even though they're showing up. Yeah.

And I think that's having a profound impact on sexual expression. I want to double down on that too because I was just thinking that when Lisa was talking as well that we have this weird dichotomy where Jenz is for example is more knowledgeable as Alex was saying, but there's also this comparison component I think that can kind of bite them in the butt. there's that expression that comparison is the thief of joy. And more than ever, I think the younger and younger generations are growing up on the internet. " Is their life the lives of younger generations now are more and more performative.

And to Alex's point, how much of that is real and how much of that is what they have learned to do to cope and compare themselves to others. So, keeping that in mind. Yeah, that's a good point. I see Gen Z the kind of the age maybe late just getting out of college where these kids are putting self-imposed social media limits on their phones. Good for them.

Yeah. And so they understand this is not healthy for me. Yeah. And I think that I think we're going to see more of that right in my cohorts with some of these other startup founders. There's a lot of technology that a parent can you know buy us a subscription for to put on their kids' phone to help them have a more healthy relationship with social media with their screen.

And I think that's only a good thing for these kids at 23, 20, 22, 23 years old to say, "Oh, I can't be on social today. " To really recognize that I think yeah, you know, it's kind of like do you guys remember when the kids were all vaping and now these kids in Europe they're vaping, but they're not vaping as much here? Yes. So it kind of was this phase that they went through a generation went through and then they came out the other side and said like I don't want to do this. I hope and I feel like that's what's happening with social media to be able to lessen as you as you were saying Alex that comparative the impact of of comparing and the impact on their mental state during that.

Yeah. Well, and it brings me back too to, you know, it's funny. You guys all have a different perspective. You all come well, you all have a different level of expertise or a different area of expertise, but it no matter how many times we talk about the physical aspect or the physical barriers or physical protection, it really seems to keep coming back to connection. Like, it's connection that's going to get you good sex.

It's connection that's going to kind of keep our friendships going. It all really seems to come back to this. " You know, I've got the Julia Roberts like tie on. My husband would die anyway [laughter] because that's how foreign of concept that is. But really, Alex, you talked to me about this in our other podcast episode before about the idea of practicing connection and actually, you know, where it doesn't necessarily have to be on a calendar where you've discussed it, but you're but it does have to be in somebody's head like, okay, we're going to do this at this time or we're gonna Can you talk a little bit about that and how that kind of helps not just the physical aspect but keep the connection going.

Yeah. So, I think what you're referencing is this idea that I tell my couples, one person should internally know that they're going to have sex and put it into their calendar so that they've mapped the entire day, like you know, the dishes are done, they've got no work to do. They don't tell their partner this, of course. So, their partner just experiences them as being very attentive and very connected. And maybe it will lead to sex.

Maybe it'll just lead to, you know, helping them your partner with their taxes or doing some random task that they're asking of you. and if you're both doing this, it means that it's going to always feel spontaneous and you're going to feel like the other person's really committed to you and invested and picking up on your mood and your energy. I like that idea because I feel like it's something like a very practical thing we can do to kind of just get the most out of our own lives, you know, and I'm curious, Lisa, how you feel about that same thing. in terms of I mean, obviously you've got something that enables protected sex at a moment's notice. Yeah, it can be at a notice, but Yeah.

Well, I mean, the education around it is what we're working on right now, right? the curriculum that is around bringing this to market later this year is being is we're developing that right now and it's really exciting because just what you're saying this connection educating them on this connection and the ability to be vulnerable and how that can help them you know in addition to this new line of products make more decisions that and enjoy and honor versus guilt and regret and shame And what we're seeing is a lot of these campuses are bringing third parties, you know, sex educators on to their programming for, you know, freshman year, first semester, second semester. They're constantly doing this. They're they're outsourcing that and they're hiring these third parties. We've we know a lot of these third parties and we're working with them with this curriculum.

And one of the things that we've shifted is there's a niche of this curriculum that is very funny based. It's humorbased. It's it's the these people are sex educators and comedians, right? And we love that because where can you be vulnerable and connected when you're laughing, when you feel good, when it's joyous, right? Not this guilt and shame and this is going to happen to you if you, right?

And so that's what's so important to us, bringing more of that joy to this education component so that they can be in that space of really receiving and the information and then associating it with connection and vulnerability and laughter that I think is so important. We've all just come out. I mean, I know CO was we can't just always blend CO, but damn it, it is a big reason for a lot of [ __ ] right? Oh, totally. And so that was really hard, dark, sad, closed off.

And I think we're seeing the what's the Gen Alpha kids? I a lot of my friends are educators and these Gen Alpha kids, they are just really happy kids. And so bringing more of that to Gen Z and then Gen X and so you know I think is what we also we have to do. I mean the path is through laughter, right? I love this.

I love that like the whole physical component of sex is comes secondary to the connection and the laughter and the joy and even like for women in for the women and pe anybody men but be since our listeners are women but for people who were saying things like I don't want to I don't feel like it. I'm tired. What are ways you can bring joy back? Because a lot of it isn't that they don't want to. was that they didn't give themselves kind of the freedom and flexibility to be like, "Hey, you know what?

It's important that I have fun. " Like I always call my husband the fun captain because if we didn't have him, I'd never go out on the [laughter] boat. I'd never do anything fun. " And I think that I think a lot of times as moms, you know, you put the kids first or as caregivers. So, how do we come back and make that fun?

Yeah, that's so true. Women are especially are wired to be selfless, right? We're wired to put others first. That's that's that's a hard thing to overcome. [clears throat] Yeah, Alex, you were going to say something, too.

Yeah. I love to really think about this as not just sex, but exercise. So, it's this whole concept of not wanting to go to the gym, but knowing if you go to the gym, you'll feel better. Not wanting to have sex, but knowing if you have sex, you'll feel better. These are all physical activities.

And the more physical you get, the more embodied you get. The more connected you get with your own emotions, your own feelings, the more alive you feel. And that's the whole point of life in my mind is to be connected with yourself and to have the best health possible. And you've got to just get pushed sometimes to get out there and do it. Yeah, I think too.

Go ahead. Oh, sorry. I that's actually a really interesting point that Alex made speaking as someone who works whose profession is very centered on exercise. It's not something I think I've ever thought of before of like treating sex as a exercise or something to do. the other comment I was thinking when you asked that Danielle was I mentioned the term responsive desire earlier and that was a term that I first learned when I was reading Emily Nagowski's book come as you are which I cannot recommend enough especially to anybody with a vagina like she speaks to all genders but she is definitely centered on folks with female anatomy and understanding that desire and sex are a lot broader than we think they are.

And it's very easy, especially culturally, to think that PNV is the only thing. Penetration is eh that is that is sex. Check. You've done your sex, right? Like it's a lot more than that.

It has been crossed off the list. Yeah, exactly. " Like that's how I am built. Not everybody is, but it could be. so reminding ourselves that sex is a really broad category and sometimes cuddling is your form of sex and that's okay.

And sometimes just touching or kissing or making out like teenagers in the back of a car. It doesn't have to be look like a certain thing in order to be pleasurable and in order to be joyful. So, keeping that in mind and highly recommend Emilina Gowski's book for anybody that's that's dealing with challenges in this area. It's blew my mind. Okay, real quick.

If you're listening and thinking more women should be hearing conversations like this, the best way to support the show is just to follow or subscribe wherever you are. It really does help it reach more people. Thanks so much. Okay, back to the show. " And now I have to be like, [laughter and gasps] "Okay, I'm gonna go to the gym.

" Because I basically will talk myself into the next step. " So, but how do we how do we make that how do we do that for sex without making it like a check off on your to-do list? because I am totally looking at my to-do list already. And a lot of times I'm like up. Well, I think you need to be focused on the benefit, right?

The I mean, pleasure is vital. This is a vital sign. This decreases cortisol. I'm sure Alex and Caitlyn know way more about the clinical side of what the impact is of sex, but knowing that this is going to help you be a better you. It's going to bring the better the best version of you out that's possible, right?

I think that knowing that, believing that is essential. I like that. I like the idea of making it a better you because I mean another thing by the way I don't know how many of you on this call are going through this but I'm in I've talked to this season I've talked to several people who are working with like midlife in terms of kind of reclaiming your own sense of self or saying no as a hard stop sentence like and I keep using the same example that my husband asked me to do something on New Year's day two years ago. And normally I would have kind of buffered it. I would have been like, I don't really feel like it.

Why don't you go? I'll make some dinner. Or I would have said, oh, you know, I feel a little tired. Whatever I would have said. And this time I was just like, no.

Like it was just I was like, I just don't want to do it and I'm not going to do it. And so you're I'm getting a little more selfish about what feels good, what doesn't feel good. So I feel like we can the way you said it Lisa too in terms of reclaiming it because it's good for us like I it aligned. Yeah. Well and I tell the Gen Z's like pleasure is vital self-pleasure is vital too.

Like we're we're seeing this completely hockey stick of vibrators. mentioned it in the beginning, Danielle, right? When you know when we were younger, CVS, you couldn't go to CVS and see six different vibrators. Definitely. I mean, you know, it used to be not that long ago, less than 2% of women owned a vibrator, a tool or a toy.

And today, it's well over 70%. So, that understanding of, hey, this is vital. these kids. I mean, I don't know the first a lot of the stats are difficult to get, but they're not really good. It like becoming clitorate from Lori, Dr.

Lorie Mint, she's awesome. She wrote that book and the first time a Gen X had an orgasm on average was like 31. We're helping Gen Z's. No, you need to be able to have an orgasm, you know, much sooner than that, right? And I think they are.

Now, all of this data really relies heavily on self-reporting and sometimes that's very skewed and that's not what is really happening. One of the stats that we see often that conflicts with the with other data is that the Jenz having less sex. Well, like to your point, Caitlin, sex is, you know, penal vaginal insertion. Okay, maybe there's less of that, but now there's more oral and we're seeing an exacerbation in the STI rates that oral, you know, that women are receiving and getting more STI. So, we know there's more happening and the universities are saying we're not seeing a slowdown in STI at whatsoever.

So, they're obviously doing something that's different from what they're, you know, answering on these surveys as sex, right? because still it's that mindset of you know penal vaginal insertion. So yeah, I think too it's interesting thinking about these generational differences as well of Danielle. I love when you said that you're it's been you're working hard to say no more and but it was interesting to hear you use the word selfish around what's good for you and that's so built into us. I think especially as women in heterosexual relationships, like no matter how, you know, I walk around wearing little vulvas in my ears, I'm extremely liberal and open, but I'm in a heterosexual relationship and I find myself and my partner is very open and very not at all falling in gender roles, but I even find myself falling into these roles of like this is what the woman does, this is what the man does.

And this idea that we conceive of self-care as selfish is fascinating. not calling you out on it, just noting it myself. And I think one thing I've noticed as well, I'm a millennial, so I'm 37, so I'm in kind of in this weird bridge gap or bridge between Gen X and Gen Z. Yeah. And I find that this certain things Yes.

that compared to when in my 20s, I'm a lot bolder about saying this is what I need and this is what I don't. And I think that is really challenging to teach to a young person. I'm sure Lisa, you encounter that. And some of it can't be taught. I think some of it is experience as well.

But one of the blessings maybe of getting older as a woman is a little bit more confidence in ourselves and our ability to say no and talk about what we need and what works for us because of experience. Mhm. Yeah. I think my daughter nannied over the summer last year and it was fascinating to hear the stories from the park. Every day they were at the park with the kids, right?

you know, and so she made a posy of friends that were all doing the same thing. And some were men. Mhm. And so, you know, Gen X, Gen Y, maybe we would have thought, oh, wow, he's a stay-at-home dad. Oh, yeah.

That kind of thing. But her peers, it was just, oh, Joe's going to be there, too. Like, it was the dads and the moms and the nannies, and it was all just one big melting pot. and nobody ostracized, nobody criticized. It wasn't anything different.

It was so nice from her lens to hear this the this roles, you know, putting people in a role was not a thing. It wasn't he wasn't labeled, oh, or they these there were more than definitely more than one stay-at-home dad. It wasn't like that. It was just Joe. Yeah.

Yeah. Beautiful. I thought that was so great. I thought that was so different from, you know, how I maybe would have thought it was or what it was when I was younger. Well, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the future because regarding that selfish thing, Caitlyn, it's funny, you know, you mentioned it and you're right.

" And I actually was like, "And I am. " because I kind of was being a little bit of an ass about it. But that's neither here nor there. The the bigger part for me, not so much in the gender roles. And this is why it'll be interesting to see how the future pans out is a lot of the self the self-imposed selfishness or the negating something because I think it's selfish is came from caregiving.

So I think I maybe started off in an equal in a place where I was like you know sometimes I gave sometimes I got and I was willing to compromise and I was you know I was just a regular person and I could decide what I wanted to do and sometimes I would do something that I thought I would compromise. Now then I went through 20 years where basically I helped facilitate the life of these people and it you know I recently wrote that I'm like oh you know you want to you want to create people who can go do their own thing and yet my 20-year-old was home from college this Christmas and was like hey mom can you copy an apple and there I was cutting an apple and I know I think I sent that to Al Alex I texted you that over the holidays because it's like [snorts] it's so hard to pull back after being that person. I think the biggest shock is actually to them, my kids, when I'm like, I will not cut you. I will I just won't do it. Sometimes I'm like, I'm in the kitchen.

I mean, the knife is right here. It's so easy to put to put myself out, but it becomes your identity. And I think that sometimes when you think about sex as pleasure, any kind of pleasure becomes less a part of who you are when all you're doing is giving to other people. And Alex, how much of that do you see as one of the things people come in? Like how often are women actually walking around?

I know there are women who do this and I'm not trying to make it just be a gender thing, but I feel like when you're in the caregiving role and Lisa, you're talking about, you know, seeing all these men doing this and that is awesome, but when you're in that role and it becomes so habitual and you are the one who is making the doctor's appointments and literally physically caring for the people around you, you [clears throat] do out of necessity have to stop caring a little bit about yourself. I mean, you're you are you are possibly going to get the stomach bug if you're crawling around cleaning up someone else's sickness. Like, it's I think you are modeling self-care, you're model, you're going to the gym, you're healthy eating, you love your job, you're modeling that so that as they move on and out of the nest, at least in my opinion, they see that without this very severe gender role lens. Totally. Totally.

And so, oh, mom made the doctor's appointments just because somebody had to make the doctor's appointments. Like, I'm a single mom, so it's a little bit different for me. Like, if I don't do it and nobody's doing it, right? [laughter] but that I think that you're modeling that you love your job and and you love helping. And I hope that then I believe that they see that and do that for themselves when they're out of the house.

I want to eat healthy, so I'm going to go cut my own apple, right? As opposed to that, like, well, mom was the mom, so mom had to do it. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to go find a wife that could do that. Like, you know, I don't think that's that.

No. Yeah. And I And but I feel like, you know, in the whole spectrum of things when you're caring for somebody else, you know, you've got all those things and you want to model all these things, but the very it's like what's the first thing to go? And the first thing to go, the easiest thing to drop is your own pleasure because so how do you repprioritize that? " Well, I'm glad that you asked it that way because what I really think is important is every five years you need to completely recreate yourself because you're in a completely new stage of life.

So, you know, the needs of your children are very different from 0 to 5 than they are from 5 to 10, from 10 to 15, etc. And so if you're always having these I almost call it like you're a CEO of your own life and you're having these like major business meetings with yourself and you re-update your life goals, your plans, what's realistic at this different juncture, you're able to shift the emotional labor that you're doing and where you're prioritizing your energy because we really do get into these habits that we started when the kids were first born. and what's great is once you have had your own meeting with yourself, you can then have like a co-me with your partner and update his or her plans with yours and then really look at it together as to, you know, should I still be doing all this emotional labor? You know, maybe I've gone back into the workforce and now I need you to take over some of this stuff. And again, it all comes down to communication and realizing we've got to continually change with life.

I love that. That's such a growth mindset. I agree. That's really I'd love to just to hop in too and mention as well like that obviously the caregiving role and especially for mothers it is huge and I cannot overstate how much that impacts my patients and I'm sure yours Alex's and Alex and so many women out there. And then there's also this category of folks like me that are child-free by choice.

And I think recognizing that society I think is it's becoming more accepted but society often sees especially women who are child-free by choice as selfish. and it's it's very common. I think it's again changing but noting that it's rarely a selfish decision. There's a lot of things that go into that decision for many people. regardless of why someone is child-free, acknowledging that even if you're a child-free person, you may still carry some of these ingrained societal expectations.

I know I certainly do. And I feel like, well, if I don't empty the dishwasher, is it going to get emptied? That's what my mom did. My mom is a stay-at-home mom. She did all these things, so therefore I should do all these things, even though I have a more than full-time job and my partner does as well, and he's a grown man and take care of himself.

So even if we're not in a traditional caregiving role, it's very difficult for us to change well the messages that we've been taught from childhood, which is if you have ovaries, these are your jobs. [laughter] so continuing to sort of I think Jenz is doing a good job of breaking down a lot of those barriers like you were talking about Lisa, but acknowledging that in ourselves of regardless of what kind of role we're in, we still might be carrying some of that baggage and maybe just in the DNA. Totally. [laughter] Oh, and how we're raised, right? Yeah.

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I just want to tell you guys I'm sorry this is like an aside and has not well it does. It has everything to do with what we're talking about but last night my husband I was working on something all day. I was working on the taxes which I absolutely hate and it's like the [laughter] bane of my existence and I was like this is and every time he tried to talk to me I was like this is like I cannot break concentration because I'll be totally lost and he was cleaning the microwave as he so we're in the same room. I'm in the kitchen. He's at the microwave and I'm just like silently like trying to find all these receipts and doing all this stuff that I hate and so hate.

I hate it. I hate it. It's the worst part of my life. I can't model any good behavior when it comes to it because I [laughter] hate it. And he's cleaning the microwave and as he's going and he's and it was overdoing.

He's like, I just cannot believe that it doesn't occur to you to clean it. And I'm like, "Oh, it's occurred to me. [laughter] It occurred to me many times. " And he was away this past weekend during this snowstorm and we had a blizzard here in New Jersey. And so I had to do the things that typically whether it's gender or just pure laziness on my part, I he has done.

And one of the things that I think that I have done, Alex, as in my own role as like CEO of my life is like a couple years ago, I was like, I will not learn a single thing. [laughter] I was like, and if I don't know how to do it, I just can't do it. So, we got a boat and my husband's always like, "Let's go on the boat. We got to clean the boat. " And I'm like, "No, I will only ride the boat.

I will not [laughter] like I will not help you clean it. I don't tie it up. I don't know anything about it because if I do somehow that's gonna end up on my plate. So, one of the devastating things that's happened this weekend is that I learned how to use the generator. And even though I want to know because I should know, right?

I'm a I'm a I'm an adult lady who can take care of herself now. I know the next storm that comes around I will my role can expand. So, you know, there's always being that CEO of self. but sorry for going into that. I don't even know why.

I just felt like I had to share the story about the microwave. But again, I do feel, and I don't know if this is a gender thing, but I do feel that the men I talk to, and it is significantly less than the women that I talk to, but the men that I talk to have no problem prioritizing pleasure for themselves. like they're really good about being like, "Oh, you know what? " It's it's part of their self-care. They recognize that pleasure is part of their self-care.

Whereas for women that I talked to, it seems like pleasure is the is an afterthought. How do Alex, what were you gonna say about it? You just tapped into something so important, which is when women quote don't know how to do something, men will take step in. And I'm using traditional male female roles. So really what you're talking about is like if women sort of stop doing all the caretaking for the children, the men will step in.

It's just you need to have that space. Like when you get a divorce, you'll typically see men suddenly doing a lot more emotional labor. They're going to do the cooking. They're going to start planning and prioritizing. And so some of this is like sidstepping and creating the shift for your partner to fill that space and trusting that it's okay to take care of yourself.

" And the reality is sometimes that's accurate and sometimes that's not. Yes, that's a good point, Alex. And I said that earlier. If I don't do it, nobody else will. And that's actually not true for right now where I my kids and I are moving into this new place.

They are making the doctor. My son recently over the holidays, he made an appointment at the urgent care for himself and it was really great. And now I took him and sat in the lobby while he went in for the sinus infection meeting for [laughter] appointment, but he did it. And so yeah, you're right. It's if I because I didn't do it.

I thought, well, if you're really I don't know how sick you are. You're telling me you're sick. I don't know how sick you are. And if it got so bad that he did it clearly. And I think that's great.

And I think ch that's what happens with in change. Like no revolution ever happened because things were like it's okay. No, it was so bad that then there was a revolution, right? So when things get so bad, I think that's when change is easy. you it's like a luxury of bad, right?

It's the massive silver lining of bad chaotic crisis things. You have to make a change. You have to ch shift. You have to make a decision. " And that's great.

I want to get back to one of the things you guys all mentioned too is that sometimes one of the things to increase pleasure, have a better sex life, etc. if it's not if you're not if it's not self arousal and you're with a partner is the conversation. So, sometimes those conversations can get awkward. Not everybody is [gasps] versed in that. Not everybody is comfortable having these kinds of conversations.

and I, it's so funny. Very recently, I was with a bunch of college girls. I'll not say anybody's names, but if they're listening, they're going to know. " And she was like, "Wait, why is he tied up? " So, you know, like conversations that we maybe aren't used to having.

How do you start that? And anybody can answer. How do women who haven't had those conversations start them naturally, right? I mean, you're watching a movie and you can start talking about it. You can read a book together and talk about it.

You can talk about something you read in the newspaper. You can talk about the Epstein files, right? I mean, like there's anything. There's so much sex around us that's a great way to start the conversation because it's not personal. You're not talking about yourself, but you're getting the topic going.

And then from there, you can say to someone, well, what's your personal opinion? How does that feel? How does that relate to us? Yeah. I think I don't know how you feel about this, Alex, but I another sex therapist that I worked with often said a good time to talk about well anytime is a good time to talk about sex with your partner, but sometimes talking about it in the moment is really tricky when you're already sort of enga starting to engage in sex or getting frustrated.

But separating it and having that conversation over breakfast at a separate time that feels less emotionally charged can be helpful too if you are getting personal. your example is more like you said depersonalized but if you are talking about your personal experience and your experience with your partner sometimes it's good to bring it outside the bedroom into somewhere that feels very neutral as a safe starting point that feels less charged. " Oh, yeah. And you know, you talk to your kids and when you feel the most connected to your kids, you know, your whatever you're talking about, that's the best time because that all you're trying to do is just add a new category to that connected dialogue. And a lot of them say, "Well, I should ask them at this time Well, you're not connected.

You're not having a conversation about something else. Do it when you're having a conversation about something else and you guys are feeling connected. Maybe you are laughing about something. It's easy. That's when you add it in.

And just keep your eyebrows from raising, right? [laughter] Just like it's Yes. Neutral face. When you're already talking to your kid about something that they're interested in, that's a good time to bring it up. It's easy.

And then and don't don't be surprised and well we need to talk. Don't make it a big thing. You know, anything that's going to be well, we need to talk about this is h it's going to put up the barriers right away. To add on to that, I would encourage people to try having these intimate conversations either before sex, during sex, after sex at all different random times because everybody's an individual and you really don't know how the other person's going to respond best. You know, some people feel the most safe after you've had good sex.

Some people feel the most safe right before sex. Some people feel the best or confident during. so try lots of different ways and take mental notes and see what works and then replicate it. Yeah, it's a good point. I I tell my parents that not my parents, but you know, parents of kids who ask me this.

You know, when do your kids go to the grocery store with you? Then when they're at the grocery, you're at the grocery store, you got the backdrop of these other things. And you know, if you're next to each other, you're then going into the car and you're loading the bags. That's a good time. It's easy.

It's light. There's not there's no intensity. You're going to the grocery store. They're relaxed. Right.

That I don't know. Those are the suggestions. I always feel like it's car rides. Long car rides are like the best for any kind of conversation. M you know I can actually remember one long car ride where I got in the car with my husband.

I think it was a family trip and I was like so furious with him. I don't I could not possibly remember what it was about but by the end of the car ride I was like I actually still really like you like it but I was like you can have those kind of low expectation conversations that turn into something more so often. I don't want to keep you guys any longer because you've been awesome with your time, but just one last question before I let you all go. Is there anything that you wish women knew sooner or that you wanted to share with the women listening that I didn't talk about that we didn't get into? Caitlyn, you want to start?

Come back to me. I'm thinking No pressure. Lisa, I Yeah, I mean, mine might be kind of specific to my to running this business, but what I wish I knew a while ago was [clears throat] how little funding is allocated to women founders. And that is not just in the venture space, which is obviously where I am. but the largest funer in the in the United States, NIH, allocates just under 1% of their entire budget to women's health and a tiny fraction of that, less than 1% to reproductive health.

[cough and clears throat] 170 million women. I mean, that is just absolutely bananas. I mean, there isn't a word that actually accurately describes what that is. And I so wish I had known that well before starting this journey. I'm not quite sure how I would have done anything differently, but knowing it would have been a better way to set up my expectations for how long this would take and the challenges that I would face, right?

Being because you know I played soccer in college, you know, I was I did whatever I wanted to do. I didn't think there were any limitations. I thought honestly I believed I could do anything I set my mind to and I was not prepared for that big cinder block wall ahead of me that systematically blocks women from being able to you know do what they want to do in this in this situation. So that's what I wish I had known sooner. And I hope knowing it now though everybody knows it now that it's, you know, on its way to shifting.

But I feel like I have so much to respond to that I'm not going to at all because but I my one pull away for our audience is that we have to keep showing up and we have to keep talking and having these conversations because if we don't do I mean talk about if we don't do it, no one will. Really, no one will. So this isn't this isn't our personal thing. This is every woman has to know these things because I think a lot of us especially at this age were raised with the idea that we could be or do anything and we've been like really shocked and stunned that society has not kept up their bargain cuz I I remember thinking even about women presidents like of course there would be a women. Now I'm like well I hope so.

I mean I but I assumed we'd be on like our second or third one by now. You know, it's Anyway, Alex, anything you want to last takeaway that I didn't talk about that you wanted to talk about that you were like, we're talking about this and we didn't do. I just want to add that I think women still can do it all. You can't do everything well, but you can do one thing extraordinarily well. And the cost might be high to get there, but you have to dream it and you have to believe in it.

And you have to be willing to get yourself back up there and keep trying and pushing yourself forward because you're your own boss and you're unstoppable. I love that too cuz I think that we have to keep we have to keep believing it and we have to have a message of hope because the reality is really difficult and if we're not pushing ourselves forward, what do we got? So, thank you guys. Caitlyn, I'm back to you. Lisa and Alex, you set me up perfectly for exactly what I was thinking because it was almost like opposite sides of the same coin.

and I'm with you, Lisa. I also work extensively in the startup space and I'm constantly frustrated by the lack of funding and acknowledgement and options for female founders and for women in general trying to solve their own problems in their health or other parts of their life. But I also agree with Alex too of that there is as frustrated as I get. I felt you Danielle and I was like oh I just want to say all the things when Lisa said this as frustrated as I feel I have to step back as well and say okay what do I do with this information? The system wasn't built for me.

How do I keep fighting? How do I keep showing up for myself? And reminding listeners as well that the medical system too was not really built for female bodies. We're getting better, but we still have to advocate for ourselves because a lot of the research and the data was almost exclusively performed on male bodies. And we are fighting to change that and we are fight showing up to try to bring more data into women's specific conditions and how women are different from men or from even non-binary folks.

There's a whole spectrum. But continuing to advocate for ourselves and not taking no for an answer when you know that something is not right in your body, in your mind, whatever it is. It's very easy to fall down a rabbit hole when you're being told, "Oh, it's normal, sweetie. Just have a glass of wine. Oh, you're fine.

" When you're hearing all these messages, I just really encourage people to stay in what you know in your own body and keep looking for answers. Maybe talk to someone else. maybe get another opinion because the more we learn about female bodies, the more we'll be a able to better care for them. and there are people out there that will listen and will help and actually advocate for you if you advocate for yourself. That's and Gen Z, I love that too, Caitlyn.

It remind me of a headline I read the other day. My daughter's in Spain right now and so I keep up on what's going on. And there was a judge, a woman judge in Barcelona that made headlines for a decision. Her decision was to enable the injuries that a woman sustained in a car accident to be covered by insurance or she was denied by insurance. and the insurance the reason for the denial was that her injuries couldn't possibly have become have come from the car crash because it was inconsistent with their actuarial data which was based on a male body.

I don't know if you guys read this. " And I said to my daughter, "Sweetie, look at the headlines in Barca. " Like it was an expectation and I thought, "Okay, yeah. Gosh, she's right. And she's right.

She's right. Here I am like woohoo. " So maybe that is growing in other areas that duh, yes, this is how it should be. Anyway, absolutely. you guys, ladies, thank you so much for being here.

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your time and your expertise and your willingness to have awkward conversations with me. You are all the best. Thank you so much. Thanks, Danielle. Thanks, everybody.

I'm so grateful to this group for having such an honest, funny, and frankly refreshing conversation about the things so many of us were never really taught and sometimes still don't know how to talk about. I keep thinking about how much easier so many things would be if conversations like this weren't the exception, but the norm. And next week, we're continuing that thread in a different way. We're talking about the assumptions that get made about women, especially in places like education, and what it looks like to challenge them, question them, and maybe rewrite them entirely with Rebecca Pierce. If this episode seemed like something you might have had with your best girlfriends, share it with them.

That's how these conversations keep going. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week on Roar.